How do the neighbors not know? Texas Polygamists

<p>I find this distressing, why was it allowed to go on for so long and where are all the boys? And why weren’t the people in the area more concerned and speaking out? wow just wow</p>

<p>again, where are the little boys? where di they disappear to?</p>

<p>[400+</a> Kids Taken From Polygamist Compound](<a href=“http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/04/04/national/a132730D77.DTL&tsp=1]400+”>http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2008/04/04/national/a132730D77.DTL&tsp=1)</p>

<p>PDT Eldorado, Texas (AP) –
More than 400 children, mostly girls in pioneer dresses, were swept into state custody from a polygamist sect in what authorities described Monday as the largest child-welfare operation in Texas history.
The dayslong raid on the sprawling compound built by now-jailed polygamist leader Warren Jeffs was sparked by a 16-year-old girl’s call to authorities that she was being abused and that girls as young as 14 and 15 were being forced into marriages with much older men.
Dressed in home-sewn, ankle-length dresses with their hair pinned up in braids, some 133 women left the Yearning for Zion Ranch of their own volition along with the children.
State troopers were holding an unknown number of men in the compound until investigators finished executing a house-to-house search of the 1,700-acre property, which includes a medical facility, a cheese-making plant, a cement plant, a school, numerous large housing units and an 80-foot white limestone temple that rises discordantly out of the brown scrub.
“In my opinion, this is the largest endeavor we’ve ever been involved in in the state of Texas,” said Children’s Protective Services spokesman Marleigh Meisner, who said she was also involved in the 1993 siege of the Branch Davidian compound in Waco.
The members of the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints spent their days raising numerous children, tilling small gardens and doing chores. But at least one former resident says life was not some idyllic replica of 19th-century life.
“Once you go into the compound, you don’t ever leave it,” said Carolyn Jessop, one of the wives of the alleged leader of the Eldorado complex. Jessop left with her eight children before the sect moved to Texas.
Jessop said the community emphasized self-sufficiency because they believed the apocalypse was near.
The women were not allowed to wear red — the color Jeffs said belonged to Jesus — and were not allowed to cut their hair. They were also kept isolated from the outside world.
They “were born into this,” said Jessop, 40. “They have no concept of mainstream society, and their mothers were born into and have no concept of mainstream culture. Their grandmothers were born into it.”
Meisner said each child will get an advocate and an attorney but predicted that if they end up permanently separated from their families, the sheltered children would have a tough acclimation to modern life.
Tela Mange, a spokeswoman for the state Department of Public Safety, said the criminal investigation was still under way, and that charges would be filed if investigators determined children were abused.
Still uncertain is the location of the girl whose call initiated the raid. She allegedly had a child at 15, and authorities were looking for documents, family photos or even a family Bible with lists of marriages and children to demonstrate the girl was married to Dale Barlow, 50.
Under Texas law, girls younger than 16 cannot marry, even with parental approval.
The church members were being held at Fort Concho, a 150-year-old fort built to protect frontier settlements, to be interviewed about the 16-year-old girl and whether, in fact, the teenager was among them.
State investigators on Sunday got a second, wider search warrant for records related to the birth of any child to a mother aged 17 and under. The initial warrant was only for the records related to the girl who called to report abuse last week.
Attorneys for the church and church leaders filed motions asking a judge to quash the search on constitutional grounds, saying state authorities didn’t have enough evidence to search the grounds and the warrants were too broad. A hearing on their motion is scheduled Wednesday in San Angelo.
FLDS attorneys Patrick Peranteau said Monday that “the chief concern for everyone at this point is the welfare of the women and children.”
DPS troopers arrested one man on a charge of interfering with the duties of a public servant during the search warrant, but it was not Barlow, Mange said.
“For the most part, residents at the ranch have been cooperative. However, because of some of the diplomatic efforts in regards to the residents, the process of serving the search warrants is taking longer than usual,” said DPS spokesman Tom Vinger, who declined to elaborate. “The annex is extremely large and the temple is massive.”
Attorneys for the church and church leaders said Barlow was in Colorado City, Ariz., and had had contact with law enforcement officials there. Telephone messages left by The Associated Press for Colorado City authorities were not immediately returned Monday.
Barlow was sentenced to jail last year after pleading no contest to conspiracy to commit sexual conduct with a minor. He was ordered to register as a sex offender for three years while he is on probation.
The Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, headed by Jeffs after his father’s death in 2002, broke away from the Mormon church after the latter disavowed polygamy more than a century ago.
The group is concentrated along the Arizona-Utah line but several enclaves have been built elsewhere, including in Texas. Several years ago it paid $700,000 for the Eldorado property, a former exotic animal ranch, and began building the compound as authorities in Arizona and Utah began increasingly scrutinizing the group.
The compound sits down a narrow paved road and behind a hill that shields it almost entirely from view in Eldorado, a town of fewer than 2,000 surrounded by sheep ranches nearly 200 miles northwest of San Antonio. Only the 80-foot-high white temple can be seen on the horizon.
Jeffs is jailed in Kingman, Ariz., where he awaits trial for four counts each of incest and sexual conduct with a minor stemming from two arranged marriages between teenage girls and their older male relatives.
In November, he was sentenced to two consecutive sentences of five years to life in prison in Utah for being an accomplice to the rape of a 14-year-old girl who wed her cousin in an arranged marriage in 2001.
The investigation prompted by the girl’s call last week was the first in Texas involving the sect.</p>

<p>These people should be left alone. They are exercising their religious beliefs and not hurting anyone else. If one girl wants out, then take her out, but parading 400 kids in front of the media is an outrage. If the state is upset that there are out of wedlock births, then it ought to be parading every ■■■■■■■ child and parent in front of the media and leave these poor people alone. The idea that Jeffs contributed to rape because he encouraged underage marriages is absolutely ridiculous. The fact that these people may seem strange to us, does not mean we can interfere with their religion and community.</p>

<p>“The compound sits down a narrow paved road and behind a hill that shields it almost entirely from view in Eldorado, a town of fewer than 2,000 surrounded by sheep ranches nearly 200 miles northwest of San Antonio. Only the 80-foot-high white temple can be seen on the horizon.”</p>

<p>Here is your answer, and often the boys are “lost” to the streets because they’ve been tossed out of the community to prevent competition for the young girls.</p>

<p>Razor, I don’t think we should condone or accept forced sexual relationships between teenagers and much older men. Or any forced sexual relationships for that matter.</p>

<p>razor-do you really think these girls would choose to marry men 3 or 4 TIMES their age? Or, what’s more, to have children by them? I highly doubt it.</p>

<p>zoosermom, under your view, marriage is forced sex. </p>

<p>You don’t know that there is any forced sex going on. If there is, then prosecute it. But for the government to presume this is wrong. The State is not permitted to just enter your household to see if it can find out whether you are doing something wrong just out of curisoty.</p>

<p>

Like I said, just because their culture seems strange to us, does not mean we should interfere with it absent evidence of a crime. Under state law, you can only marry one person at a time. If there is a second or third marriage, it is not a marriage at all. It may be marriage in the eyes of their church, but it is not a lawful marriage. </p>

<p>This case is an example of the government infringing on the religious rights of a group.</p>

<p>“zoosermom, under your view, marriage is forced sex.”</p>

<p>What?? Where did you get that from?</p>

<p>“You don’t know that there is any forced sex going on.” Babies born to girls too young to consent is proof enough for me.</p>

<p>“strange” its not “culture” is child abuse…this isn’t about “religion” </p>

<p>so, razorsharp, you pretty much think anything goes when it comes to children? that parents should be able to do whatever they want? </p>

<p>that parents can give them little schooling, make them work all day, marry them off to old farts, banish the young boys and keep them virtual prisoners in these here United States</p>

<p>sometimes i wonder if you are serious or really believe what you say</p>

<p>and razorsharp, where are all the little boys? do you have some explanation for why there are twice as many girls as boys?</p>

<p>and if you are raised in an environment of oppression, where its the norm to marry young girls off to older men (which is just sick, no matter what the culture is) then you have lost your options and your choices and yes, your free will</p>

<p>I am a strong believer in civil liberties, but if it were up to me, I would not allow a 14 year old girl who is highly influenced by her minister “choose” to have sex with a much older man and give birth to his child at age 15 in the name of religious beliefs, but that’s just me, with a 14-year-old at home. </p>

<p>Whether the minister encourages the young girl toward sex and pregnancy when

  1. she is not married to the man,
  2. she is the man’s only wife, or
  3. she is one of the man’s many wives
    doesn’t make any difference in my judgment. </p>

<p>Where does freedom of religion end? Would you let a 10 year old girl who is highly influenced by her minister choose to have sex with a much older man as long as she were married to him - and just say they are both “exercising their religious beliefs”? How about an 8 year old? A 6 year old? A 4 year old?</p>

<p>Sex at 14, baby at 15 ->
[The</a> Associated Press: Arrest Made in Texas Polygamy Case](<a href=“http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIdMpRHjN4hpNKBhfYyAsR4DDo4QD8VT7JM05]The”>http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5iIdMpRHjN4hpNKBhfYyAsR4DDo4QD8VT7JM05)</p>

<p>so, razorsharp, using your logic, a person can pretty much do anything, and call it “religious” beliefs?</p>

<p>and sorry to say, but when it comes to children, the authourities can come into your home if there are reports of abuse, and hopefully save a child</p>

<p>I don’t care if you have sex with a washingmachine, but don’t mess with children, no matter what “religion” you are</p>

<p>The very notion of any sex between a minor and an adult is aborrhent. And that remains true no matter the gender of the adult. Everyone agrees right? Right? </p>

<p>But it is perplexing to me that our society is so ready to forgive the act so long as the perpetrator is a female. Very curious. And having said that: How is the practice of polygamy between consenting adults harmful to anybody? I can ask the same question regarding same sex marriages: How are they harmful to anybody? Answer: Neither are harmful. </p>

<p>Then why should one practice be allowed between consenting adults but not the other? </p>

<p>Answer: One has politics on it’s side.</p>

<p>very seldom is polygamy between “consenting” adults…sure, there are, I am sure,some 'heathy" plural relationships, but seems to me, that the ones that use religion as the basis or jusitification or whatever for the polygamist families are generaly not all that healthy- </p>

<p>If this was about two adult women who really had choices in life, who weren’t coereced into “marriage” because god told them or their “husbands” to, if the girls had options in life- education, not getting shunned, jobs, if fear wasn’t used to create the marriage, etc., then sure, maybe for two women or two men to share a spouse wouldn’t be so bad, but that is generally not what we are talking about here- and when their children are not given choices, or free will, then the cycle continues</p>

<p>we are talking about a really unbalanced relationship here, even if the females are 16</p>

<p>And what happens to the teenage boys in these families, the lost boys? seriouslly, statistically, there should be more boys</p>

<p>Oh. I agree. These people are part of a controlling cult. And as such, “consent” to anything the cult requires should be viewed with a suspicious eye especially along these lines. My argument was made with the intention to point out the hypocrisy of what our society deems what consenting adults should or should not be allowed to practice and why one adult gets a “bye” on aborrhent acts based on their gender. Can it be that those are “cult” values too?</p>

<p>“My argument was made with the intention to point out the hypocrisy of what our society deems what consenting adults should or should not be allowed to practice.”</p>

<p>That would be another thread, in which I would agree with you, but this thread is about children, not consenting adults.</p>

<p>

No, you are wrong. I am not suggesting any member of the group should be permitted to break the law because of their religious beliefs. I am saying the State should follow the same rules it applies to other citizens. If there is probable cause for a crime, then the police can investigate. Assuming every “marriage” is a rape is foolish. Other than the call from one girl, the state should stay out of their business. Instead, the State made the same assumption that the rest of you are making and took all of the children. Forcefully taking children from their homes can be tramatic for the children. It is inexcusible behavior by the State and it is a violation of their religious freedom.</p>

<p>

I believe the age of consent in Texas is 17. If a 17 year old girl want to “marry” and have consensual sex with an older man, it is no ones business but hers.</p>

<p>Boys are banished for minor infractions. I remember reading an article which included interviews with some of these boys. They are banished, taken out of the compound and basically dumped in towns with a few dollars, where they must fend for themselves in a world they don’t know. Some are taken in by welfare agencies, others manage to find menial jobs. I can’t remember where I saw the article, a year or so ago, banished for misbehavior such as looking at the girls in “inappropriate” ways or not doing chores. It’s unconsciencable.</p>

<p>“I believe the age of consent in Texas is 17. If a 17 year old girl want to “marry” and have consensual sex with an older man, it is no ones business but hers.”</p>

<p>The girl at issue gave birth at 16 to the child of a 50 year old man. Consent doesn’t apply.</p>

<p>“consent” is a very interesting word, can you consent if you feel you have no choice…I don’t think so, and those girls really have no choice, even if some want to believe they do</p>

<p>I</p>