How do undecided students get into prestigious colleges?

Applying to College
1

I’ve heard that many students become admitted to ivies and other top colleges while still being undecided for their major.

If students are undecided about their major, presumably their extracurricular activities will be spread out and, for lack of a better word, random…
If so, how do undecided students manage to impress these top schools? Besides high test scores and GPA.

For example, if a student is interning at a very high level for a business company, that would be impressive, but the student most likely wouldn’t be listing themselves as undecided.

How do undecided students stand out from other ‘decided’ students who showed a clear passion?

2

Imo, the better ones have clear “possible” directions, even if not firm ideas, and activities that back those up, to-date. At least, for top colleges. If you apply with a shoulder shrug “I dunno,” and leave adcoms guessing, it doesn’t show much thinking.

Of course kids can discover a new direction once in college. Unless you have to apply to a particular program, you aren’t declaring for a couple of years. But you can still have initial ideas, share those, even if you call it undecided.

3

Colleges want students who are interested and interesting. Nowhere do they say that you need to have your life mapped out already.

4

Colleges don’t expect 17/18 year olds to have their whole life planned out. Having plans and being an intelligent, capable student with future potential aren’t highly correlated.

5

That’s not necessarily the case. And besides, many top students may have a wide variety of EC activities but may have achieved impressive things in a few of them. I’ve known kids, for instance, with Concord Review articles and USAMO scores, kids with published academic papers and world debate rankings, kids who attended TASP and worked in Michelin starred restaurants.

6

@lookingforward @marvin100 @intparent @doschicos thanks! That helps clear things up for me. Given all that, what do you think of my Ec’s?

Red Cross 10-12
Varsity Soccer 9-12 We were league champions in 10th grade (Soccer season is only in the spring)
College Preparation Program 9-12
Church member and volunteer 9-12 (Leader of club in 11th and 12th grade) Club that manages flyers and announcements and handouts and activities for the church
Christian Summer Camp 9-12 1wk camp in the summer; various volunteer activities like helping out in homeless shelters, renovating abandoned homes, etc. for ~30hrs/summer
Full scholarship for summer program on college campus where I took college classes
Volunteer at a physical therapy clinic 11-12 1hr/week
Free creative art workshop associated with HWS College 11-12 in the fall

Maybe questbridge will be added to that list, I’m still a junior

7

It is hard to tell from a forum post if a list of ECs is good or not. Lets say I make a post and say I am a very good student with top scores but only have one single EC and that is dance. No awards, no unusual recognition, nothing. Just a rigorous dance program (10-15 hours a week). How does that sound? Not very good if you ask me. Yet two of my D’s friends got admitted to Princeton and Pen with that only one EC. For top schools everything depends on how your whole application comes together, your essays, your LORs, how you present yourself (assuming top grades and scores.) I personally think your ECs are fine.
I think questbridge will help you a lot.

8

@am9799 I agree with your post…except any rigorous dance program is WAY more than 10-15 hours per week. Our daughter dances for a pre-professional ballet company and is at the studio for class and rehearsals for an average of 25 hours per week. On the weekends of performances (and especially in Nov/Dec during Nutcracker season), she has 8-10 hour days at the theater. I think one EC like this is impressive to schools. Tons of dedication, an intense experience over many years, and lots of time management while trying to remain a top student.

All this to say that, if someone has one EC and is admitted to top schools, I’m guessing it’s an all-consuming EC.

9

Ah, a “Chance me” thread in disguise. :wink: Grades & test scores come first. Without those, no telling. Even with them, no telling.

But here is the thing. You can get a great education even if you are not at an Ivy or other top college. Don’t get hung up on the brand. That is your ego driving the search, not your head. Apply to a range of schools. Spend time finding options you can be happy with that are affordable and also are matches & safeties. If you get into a highly ranked college and it is s fit for you, great. Although neither of my kids went to the highest ranked schools they got into – fit beat ranking for both of them. There are many colleges that can help you meet your goals, not just a small number.

10

@homerdog
I asked my D and the program is 3 hours a day (two classes of 1.5 hours each) so 15 hours a week plus weekend rehearsals as needed (not every week). So I guess NOT even a rigorous program and still they got admitted :slight_smile: Both girls were top students in competitive public high school.

11

@am9799 Thank you! And when you say my EC’s are fine, are you saying that relative to specific colleges? Because saying my EC’s are fine for an ivy (which I know are not, lol) is very different from saying my EC’s are fine for a state school.

12

I’ve heard a number of admissions officers say that they seek to create a well balanced class. That class will include some well rounded individuals (with well-rounded ECs) as well as some individuals with specific talents/interests. In addition, they have said that approximately 50% of students typically apply undecided and that about half of the applicants coming in with a major end up switching it while in college.

13

“How do undecided students stand out from other ‘decided’ students who showed a clear passion?”

I see two ideas in your post. First, is the easier one—does listing a major as being undecided help or hurt. Second, how does a student without showing a clear passion stand out. I think the first has been answered here. The second is another routine question on CC. Short answer, there is no magic answer or solution here.

Some students, a minority in my opinion, are “decided”. I daresay every college, unless they lock you in, understands that a proposed major or field of study is aspirational at best.

As for passion, I think this is a concept that is easily misunderstood from a student’s perspective. If you analyze just one individual, on one level, you can try to identify that person’s passion. Flip this around, and if you are a college and building a cohort or class of hundreds to thousands, you want a diverse, vibrant community of students.

This “passion” concept, as applied only to college applications, makes an individual try to develop interests just to appeal somehow to the ad coms building a class in the hopes that you will be one of the accepted to X, or Y, or Z university. This is all wrong. Utilitarian and understandable but wrong.

“Passion” is better understood as developing who you are, what you like, what is special about you. It’s not about an end game for college applications. So, if what you like is writing poetry, go forth and write. I know students who applied as being passionate about poetry who are in engineering and pre-med programs (and not English majors). Your “passion” does not equal major. It’s just what drives you. It can be soccer. It can be academic team. Science fairs. Dance. Music. Theater. Rap. Comedy. Farming. Art. Environmentalism. Activism. Empathy. Anything. It can be a combination of two, or three, or more of these. It can be a highly specific thing in one. There is no magical formula. There is just you being you.

Of course, schools would like to see you developing an interest in something or some things. This is how they see how you might benefit the school. If you are a jack-of-all-trades, if you dabble, it indeed can be hard to stand out. But it’s not about “decided” students. Students that stand out have just invested time in doing things they like. It’s not a gimmick. The more interested they are in some area, they more they choose to focus on that area over another. Over time, they have something that makes them stand out. Equally, a student might start out as passionate about A and B activities, but over time, A wanes, B remains constant, and new activities C and D become dominant. That’s growing up. But it’s also about growing. It humanizes you too.

If you are indeed more of the jack-of-all-trades type, or more middle of the pack while being an awesome high-achieving student, how do you stand out without such an interest or focus? Short answer? Write fantastic application essays. Choose teachers who will write fantastic letters of recommendation. Long answer: go be you.

14

Well, for example, we acknowledge that colleges want a class with balance in the majors. How do you think they get there? Do you think they guess? Or look for strengths and then see how that kid chose to pursue and develop those, as an indication of interest and awareness? And not just in classes.

If they ask what possible major, the student should be able to say something that reflects possible academic interests, give adcoms something to start with, even a vague notion, even if they could change (and even if he ends up lumping them under Undecided.) They want to see that your choices (in hs and in the app) make sense, that you have been thinking and acting in some directions, are able to activate, as an individual, a trait.

It’s not just about “passions”. If unchallenged, a kid’s passions may be cell games or reading romance novels or watching some tv show. That’s not about college; but here, college is the topic.

That nice kid who likes math, was on the math team, at least, and maybe did some plays or band, can look more activated than the kid who says, I dunno, I took the classes my hs required, I joined some clubs,I volunteered occasionally, whatever.

For the more competitive colleges, it can be all about how you present, not just default.