Also just because THAT kid gets a broadway gig and YOUR kid goes to the same school doesn’t mean…really anything.
@mtmcmt, I think artskids and actorparent are on to a way that you might find the info you are looking for. Check the lesser known schools’ theatre department websites and see if they have an alumni section. It’s fairly common to find those because schools love to brag about what their successful graduates are doing in the business. That may be your best bet.
I do agree with all the points above. And hopefully while in college most of our kids are getting a good education along with MT training, making wonderful friends and developing skills they can use in many fields. But I also think it is totally understandable that @mtmcmt and others are interested in what work grads from different programs are getting. It is just one factor in how to assess a program. How much weight you choose to give to alums and where they are working is up to you.
Looking at these posted alumni lists are just so misleading. I would not consider them at all when making decisions about the worth of a program or the value of a degree.
For example, Marymount lists just about every off/ off-off Broadway showcase-like space in NYC. I’m sure it’s totally accurate that students or alumni have performed in them, but most of these are one night performances or one or two night runs. Often unpaid. Several are spaces that house BFA showcase in NYC. Yes, it is valuable in one’s career to showcase one’s skills, and to have performance opportunities, but it is misleading to perspective students to create lists like this.
As for their long list of Broadway shows, I would guess that several of their listings are based on internships working for the theatre companies, rather than performance opportunities.
I totally get that parents are looking to answer what path their children will land on with this degree. But you’re never going to find that answer. Everyone’s journey will be different. Yes, school connections, or top notch training will help, but in the end it is up to what choices a graduate makes and what opportunities present themselves.
In D’s graduating class there are many that are performing–or trying to perform–and many who have chosen different paths for a range of reasons. Some are on Bdway and some are barely sent on auditions by their agents. Some had great gigs upon graduation and now are floundering, some have seen their opportunities grow. Few of the ones auditioning are working full time in theatre over a long period of time. Must have nanny, personal trainer, restaurants jobs between bookings. For some, those bookings have been national tours or criuises for 6 to 9 months at a time. For the majority, those bookings have been regional theatre for a few weeks at a time, booked occasionally.
I would say that there were no real surprises about why the kids on Broadway or national tours got those roles. In any given performance that I saw over the years at NYU, those were the students who stood out the most
consistently. So taking away the prestige of a program as a factor, they were the students that had the “it” factor in a top program. There are others, too, but then desire, preserverence and luck come into play.
I will also throw out there another variable: the kids from schools with a lot of wealthy families may have more in the “working in theater” column because of the percentage of parents who are willing to help pay living expenses so the kid can throw all into auditioning when they first get out. I have a friend whose kid is quite a bit older than mine who warned me about this. She told me that in her kid’s (acting) class, the kids who had the most success in the business after 5 years were the ones whose parents majorly helped with living expenses after graduation. Of COURSE there are exceptions (I know your fingers are itching, Soozie, but your daughter in so many ways is just that: EXCEPTIONAL) but I for one don’t think going into this I fully appreciated how hard it is for these young people to survive financially in a place like NYC and do all that they have to do to try to get themselves seen. Especially girls. It’s exhausting.
@callienne, that’s so true and it’s all the more reason to save on college costs by accepting the school, if you love it, that offers the best deal.
Or to set your kid up in a theater market that is cheaper than NYC. I see a lot of my son’s friends working in theater in Chicago at income levels that would not be possible in NYC.
@vvnstar is right (see their earlier post) about post-performing prospects for MT grads. I have hired plenty of them in marketing and promotion roles, and they are usually excellent for the worlds of marketing, promotion, event management (which is, of course, “putting on a show”), branded content and experiential marketing. They know how to collaborate on projects that have a creative objective and a business reason-for-being. They know how to deal with creative people, and they understand that lots of businesses require outputs from a creative process. They are not scared by that. And they speak well in meetings, know how to rally enthusiasm and are particularly comfortable with a range of feedback. Most new employees (or experienced ones, for that matter) NEVER achieve that. An MT grad wil have that, in spades.
I believe @Calliene and @uskoolfish have nailed two important factors. Having the “IT” factor is not anything tangible that any one of our kids can train for. It can’t be bought and it can’t be taught. It’s been brought up here before and there wasn’t an agreement on what “it” is. I’m still trying to figure it out myself. I think those kids will thrive in any program, any place, and any environment. However, it is a rarity and if everyone had “it” it wouldn’t be special. I would guess 99% of us do not have children who posses it, but that doesn’t mean they won’t be successful. Secondly, being able to support yourself long term is HUGE. Having a family who can provide that support can make a big difference for those who do not find success immediately.
Lastly, I would like to point out that this argument is not native to the MT discussions only. If you ever venture over to the main boards, you will read this same ROI discussion about all “soft” degrees.( Literature, psychology, etc.) I even read this same ROI argument attached to what they called “soft” business specialties or STEM degrees from “lesser quality” schools. I say that to offer that what some of us may be feeling could be related more to the price tag of tuition vs. the MT major at a lesser known program.
Sidebar… As a person who likes concrete numbers and decisions, this entire field is daunting and overwhelming to me. I think I understand the point of those asking about numbers and facts — I don’t think you are crazy at all! Some of our brains are wired that way. Don’t feel alone in your thoughts, mine are racing as well.
I apologize in advance for going off- topic, but time for a mini-rant. I get so annoyed by the “Return On Investment” argument (I go on the parent forum occasionally and have seen the conversations @IfYouOnlyKnew mentions, and had to ponder to figure out what ROI stood for at first- so I thought I would spell it out for others who are acronym challenged like myself 
) Maybe it’s because I’m a humanities (history) teacher and have spent far too much time defending why those subjects are valuable. Maybe because I think education is intrinsically valuable- it doesn’t need an end game to justify it. And yes, college costs are out of whack, and I completely understand wanting to make sure you aren’t throwing $$ down a hole. But I just can’t see the argument that the ultimate test of a college major is how much $$ you earn from it. My husband and I went to the same college. He makes 2.5x as much as I do - does that mean those years meant more or shaped him more than they did me? I would argue no. And in fact- I still USE the information I learned in college (historical content) every single day - whereas what he was taught in his marketing degree has very little to do with his daily life in e commerce. Rant over. Sorry
OK good points from @uskoolfish and others above about the alumni lists. Also to echo what others have hinted at. I don’t necessarily measure success by Broadway credits. I’d claim victory if my daughter became connected to one of the up and coming and MT writers (like soozie’s daughter) and they asked her to do a staged reading (for free). Or if she somehow got in with AVByte and got to perform in of their very funny YouTube videos (for free) like several of the New Studio grads a couple of years ahead of her. Or if she got cast in something promising in NY Fringe Festival. Victory there too. Or if she got voice over work (not for free).Or if she worked in a student film by someone you know is going somewhere (for free). I’m even happy when she goes to one of those overly crowded NYC auditions and gets a callback. And so on and most of that stuff will not show up in lists anywhere.
I guess I’m saying that I’d highly value a program that provides a path to making important connections. And to echo what @monkey13 said earlier, that has the teaching talent as well as the curriculum to grown a student’s skill set so they have at least a fighting chance to survive in this business. Also very much agree that being able to “do” doesn’t always translate to the ability to teach. My daughter has had more than her fair share of Academy Award winning, Tony Award winning teachers. Some of them were great but one of the best teachers in her 4 years has a whole lot of “Law and Order SVU” credits along with a random “Nurse Jackie,” “Gossip Girl” and many more like that so you get the drift. She is a terrific young working actor without the highest pedigree awards and she is an absolutely brilliant teacher.
@toowonderful I agree the argument as it pertains to majors only is ridiculous.* Disclosure I’m in what is called a “soft IT” degree, so I probably fall into the same category that the main board considers wasted money.* However, as a person who likes numbers, facts and data, I just can’t shut off my expectation of ROI on education as a whole, not specifically MT, but MT is what we are discussing here because that is what my S is persuing. I’m researching MBA programs for myself, you bet ROI is a factor in where I chose to attend. That includes program cost, program plan, and earning potential post graduation. Is that how everyone makes decisions? I have no idea, I just know that’s how its done in my house. In MT, ROI probably looks different for each family, but I can’t believe there isn’t some return expected from sending our kids off to college for 4 years.
@mtmcmt - I’ll share with you about Coastal Carolina University. My D graduated in 2014. Her class was the first class to audition in for the then new BFA at CCU. Previously it had been a BA. And because it goes along with the title of the thread, her final 2 choices came down to CCU and NYU. She could have chosen either. And I have no doubt she would have loved NYU! She visited CCU after she was accepted and just felt “at home” there. She said NYC would still be there when she graduated - and it was! We paid for it with a mixture of a great academic scholarship she received, a couple of other smaller scholarships, her working all 4 years at CCU, our current earnings, and a small loan that I pay because our goal was for her to graduate debt free.
If you look at the CCU BFA classes of 2014 and 2015, there are alumni currently (as of today) working on cruise ships, at regional theatres, on tours, in NYC, and in Italy. Several also do tv and film work. There are regular updates about what current students and alumni are doing on the CCU Theatre Facebook page (CCUDepartmentofTheatre.)
My D lives and works in NYC. She does have a regular non-performing job, but it is in the theatre industry. She worked as an actor 10 of 12 months last year. She is currently on a 5 month contract as an actor in NYC, and has lined up a Christmas tour for the end of this year. That means she is still auditioning (they pretty much always are!) and hoping to book work for June to October. She sometimes picks up extra money by being an audience member for Beat Bobby Flay, which makes me extremely jealous! She has booked one or two days of tv work but those are tough to fit in with her schedule. Her pay from performing does not pay all her bills, but she is self-supporting with that and her other job income. She’s happy. That makes me happy.
I can’t say how her life would be different if she had chosen NYU. But she tells me she has no regrets about the path she chose and what else can you hope for as a parent?
It really boils down to making connections. My son will graduate debt-free from the University of North Texas. He will be working as an Audio Engineer. For what he does he really did not need a degree, but being at UNT he has made valuable connections that will serve him well in his future. I think some of these students no matter where they go will make valuable connections that will save them in the future. They will find out about upcoming auditions they will also find places to live with these connections. I think you really cannot go wrong no matter where you go to College. Myself I am not willing to pay $60,000 a year for an education for my d. That doesn’t mean she won’t go somewhere and offset the cost by merit and artistic scholarships. We are only willing to pay so much for her. Thanks!
ROI is another perfectly reasonable tool. It does not have to be the only evaluative tool but certainly one in a family’s toolkit. Of course we expect some sort of return to follow 4 years of college. It does not have to be a $ for $ comparison (a $200,000 degree should yield $x) but it should yield something (work/admission to a great master’s program/something else?). I doubt we’d pay big bucks for college degrees without some sort of post-graduation expectation.
@IfYouOnlyKnew - I get it and totally agree. It’s all those people on the parent board declaiming that you can’t have a worthwhile life without being a STEM major (preferably engineering or CS) that get me worked up Though I will admit, part of MY rules for the colleges on D’s list had to do with academics, so that IF she ever is looking for a non theater type of job, she would have a highly respected school on her resume.
@toowonderful according to main boards my Information Systems Management degree is not worth the paper its written on. Leaves me wondering how I have any skills to write this basic response to you. 8-}
In our household we parents got to decide how much we could/would contribute towards college, but we did NOT get to decide what our kids wanted to be when they grew up. If we had, our D would not be an actor, but fortunately she gets to make all the important decisions about her own life and so far seems to have made terrific choices for herself. So although I admit to having spent too much time agonizing over how hard her future career may be, it remains (and hopefully always will be) her own life to manage.
Also - while I agree it is easier for kids whose parents help pay expenses post-college to spend more time auditioning, I’m not convinced it is ultimately helpful in building their careers, or even that those kids actually audition or book more than those who must pay their own way.
@IfYouOnlyKnew - you are still ahead of me with a degree in History (and education, I was a dual major) What possible good could come of knowing what humanity has done up to this point?
I was a history major and to be practical took a bunch of economics courses. We learned all about M1 and M2, which is completely irrelevant in modern day economics. So really, who am I to denigrate an MT degree?