@CCDD14 This is my wife’s point! It does have value, and maybe I am worrying about nothing…
So your q is really not “how to wean my D” but “how do my wife and I get on the same page.”
Marian makes some good points re transition expenses - business clothing, starter furniture, etc. Why don’t you and your wife discuss what you think is appropriate to give her? I’m going to guess that you / wife don’t do a lot of budgeting yourselves (not a value judgment) and so from wife’s perspective it’s just “we can afford it so why not.”
There are still ways you can treat her and transition her. For example, we bought our son, who has a low paying job in his field of interest, a $300 gift card for gas. That eases his burden but the when it’s done, it’s done.
@phunt01810, honestly I think you might have a spouse problem and not so much a kid problem.
It sounds like the kid had a good job in the summer. When my kid made that much one summer, she paid for her rent for the summer and all of her living expenses that year.
When your D was planning this spring break trip, did she tell your wife before she booked? My kids did discuss with me what their spring break options are before anything was booked and we talked about it. If she made over $8000, she should have enough money to go and still have enough money for the rest of the year. What is she spending her money on to have gone through $8000 before March?
For this to stop, you and your wife have to be on the same page and it doesn’t sound like you are. I go through this with a friend of mine. She wants to be her kids friend and not their parent. She never wants to say no, so the kids spend money without regard for budgets or thinking that a parent worked hard. Money is a free flowing commodity that never dries up. Designer clothes, expensive spring breaks, organic food, renting the nicest apartments.
I know you want examples. My D could be strong willed. She did not like getting her way. But sometimes parents have to be parents and say no. They can throw a temper tantrum, you have to be strong and stand your ground. And both parents have to be a united front. If you’re not, then nothing will change.
Speaking to what Marian said. My kids had jobs in the op’s range. Both came with a signing bonus. We told our kids that we were paying for their college education and then it was up to them. I paid the security deposit and first month rent and the other expenses with setting up their first apartment. I kept track of what I spent and when they received the signing bonus, they paid me back.
It meant that maybe they had to live in a sparsely furnished apartment for a while. And everything wasn’t perfect. I was told I was being mean expecting to be paid back. I held my ground. It’s worked out ok.
It seems important to me young people learn to live within their means whether they have a lot of money or a little. Almost everyone can manage to live beyond their means, no matter what their income, if they are irresponsible. Just from what I am reading here, it isn’t clear to me your daughter would have any idea of what the expectations are from dad and mom. Did you tell her she was supposed to use the summer salary for her spending? Or is there an unspoken assumption you give her extra money on a regular basis, for all the fun things? I don’t think it is a problem to give kids extra money, but I like a regular allowance much better because it helps them plan and gives them a measure of autonomy. I don’t think it is a problem to ask mom and dad for the extra money for fun things, if mom and dad are comfortable saying “no” and the kid understands well in advance “no” may be the answer. But I can’t tell if you are changing the rules on her. It seems confusing to me.
Since she (and maybe you?) feel she will soon have a salary adequate to her needs and she should enjoy herself while she can… why not loan her the money she wants for college fun times with the understanding she pay it back when she begins work. I think that is treating her like an adult. This is assuming you don’t actually want to be out of pocket for her extras any more. And it goes without saying you would want to cap the loan amount if she is financially reckless, but that doesn’t seem to be a real concern here if I understand correctly.
adding: We never had this particular problem because we gave the kids an allowance and it seemed to be enough for their needs. Sometimes we supplemented the allowance when they had unanticipated expenses, but I can’t remember them ever asking for money except once. That was for some summer classes and we found some work for the kid to do for us in exchange for the classes, because paying for classes year round was not in our budget.
Marian didn’t pay for her kids’ transition expenses, either, by the way. One kid had enough money of her own to pay for everything, so it was not necessary to lend her any money – not even to fill in the gap before the signing bonus arrived. The other kid did not get a signing bonus – he just got relocation expenses, which don’t include things like a business wardrobe and furniture. Marian lent him several thousand dollars, to be paid back within three years. He paid back every dime.
Marian is not a pushover.
I shut my kids’ allowance off the day they turned 14. They both had jobs the same week lol. The only thing I paid for after that point was clothing, school supplies/requirements, school lunches. I matched what they saved for their first car and S had to pay for everything else himself while D’s bio pays the insurance for her. I took them both on one vacation each year (usually Disney or Universal their choice). FWIW, I was a single mother until three years ago.
My son joined the military and left home just after his 18th birthday, that was 8 years ago, and he has been self-sufficient since then. D is in college (obv) and the deal is this: hand me $3000 every September 1st and I will make sure all tuition, fees, room/board, and travel expenses to and from are paid for. Everything else is on her. She made $6000 last year working two jobs so there was plenty left over for books and fun $$ and she actually banked a bit. She is working two jobs while at school and will work at least that this summer. She has managed to go to NYC one weekend and skiing one weekend and makes regular trips to the town outside her school for pizza and movies, etc. I continue my yearly vacation with her (we went to Disney over winter break).
Just say NO?
Families have different approaches to giving their kids money and a lot of it will depend on how much money the families have, and maybe how responsible the kids are. I don’t think there is a right or wrong answer here, just that the kids need to understand the rules and expectations. That is what seems most important to me.
It’s a different discussion if a kids understands the money rules and expectations and isn’t following them, than if no rules exist.
When my D was finishing her jr year she had an opportunity for a great summer internship in NYC and we agonized over whether we should pay for housing (etc) or let her do so. I brought it to this board because we were so agonized! Ultimately, D said that while of course she loved parental influxes of $, that she should pay for housing / food. It was really a good way to take off the training wheels, so to speak, in prep for life after college.
It didn’t mean that we couldn’t be generous (doing the first major food run while settling her in, gift cards to nearby coffee shops, ice cream shops, etc) and still feel “parent-like” in that role.
^^the nice thing with this scenario to me is that she is covering all her basics. She knows she can take care of herself. She doesn’t have to ask you for money to get by.
eta:
That really is an excellent post PG. I think that is what we are all aiming for: kids who can take care of themselves. How much we want/decide to do for them once it is clear they can take care of themselves is a different discussion. There are different approaches. I respect everyone’s philosophy on that!
Marian, it wouldn’t have made you a pushover if you had paid for a business wardrobe or other transition expenses. It’s about expectations and gratitude. A pushover is if you want to do x, kid wants y, and you immediately acquiesce and do y. A parent who OFFERS to buy (say) a business wardrobe, and a kid who is appropriately grateful and respectful, is not a pushover.
Some of this is family tradition. My parents subvented our early married lives (with extras, not basics) just as their parents had done for them. We did the same for our kids, (paying it forward) until it was completely unnecessary and became a bit ridiculous.
@Pizzagirl, I agree with you.
The loan to my son was my idea. I suggested it when it became clear that he was in a difficult situation. He showed appropriate respect by paying me back on time.
I only immediately acquiesce and do y when it’s blindingly obvious that the kid is right and I’m wrong. That has happened, but not in situations involving money.
So is the 8,500 before or after tax? Is she going to make that much this year? Do you require her to pay any of her college expenses out of that money or is it all spending money? For example DS has a co-op(works a semester then goes to school a semester) As soon as he got his first pay check he was responsible for all food,books and required stuff for school,clothes,gas for the car,and spending money. Because he has pay to for his expenses all year he needs to make sure and save enough money to pay for the next terms expense too. We do pay for his cell phone,car insurance,medical bills and housing.I didn’t tell him how to spend/budget his money. I just told him what he was responsible for and that he ought to make sure and save enough in order to pay for it. It may sound harsh but the reality is if we hadn’t “cut” him off so to speak for those expenses we still would be paying for them.My son is a junior too and one other thing I told him when he got the job was that we were NOT going to be able to help him with first/last months rent on his first place out of college and that also we were NOT going to be buying him a car when he graduates. He is currently using our 3rd car and assuming it is still running it will be moving on to one of his younger brothers. So he needed to save up the money for at least the apartment costs and the down payment or more for a car. If the money she makes is just for spending money then I would sit down and have a talk with her about paying for some real college expenses and/or saving some for the costs after graduation.
@Marian is a little harsher than most parents. I turned out fine with getting some money to go along with what I saved over summer.
There is no such thing as one-size-fits-all parenting, because kids aren’t all the same. Even in the same family.
Thank You…but uhhhh not a marital problem ( SEE POST 38)…this post is about kids growing up and learning financial responsibility …
If the goal is financially independent and savvy young adults, there are likely as many approaches as there are circumstances. There are the staged withdrawal or pulling off the bandaid quickly options. Having two kids with different financial styles and college/career situations has taught me is that the goal here is that they “get it” around fiscal management, prioritizing and living within their means. They need to know the basic math involved in assessing their monthly costs vs. their take home pay, as well as the importance of long and short term savings… At times, I would appreciate them knowing when to ask for help as savings are established.
I think the most important things are to be direct and precise about what you are or are not willing to do and engaging them in a discussion about how their finances are working so that they learn the process. Some kids intuit this, some kids do not despite other strengths. Make it concrete and start when they are young with fiscal clarity and pragmatism. This may harder for families with the means to indulge, making it even more important to do so. As to whining, we told the kids that we couldn’t respond to that voice and they needed to try again in pre-school; probably why they are both formidable verbally…
So… The first two years we required her to contribute to the cost of her education. This year, for a number of reasons WE decided she did NOT have to contribute. However after her lack of “money management” WE have asked her to plan on her financial contribution and maybe a little more next year:)
So you changed the rules. That’s fine, but were the ramifications of those rules explained? Was it clear that sue would do x and you would do y?
If you changed them before, what is your question about how to change them again? You said earlier on your wife is in a different place from you. Is it 2 against 1 and you are the bad cop?