How does one become a lawyer?

[Americanski]

<p>

The precise ratio of ABA-accredited first year law school seats to first year med school seats is 2.7 to 1.

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<p>Well, ok. So even if everything else were equal (which is not the case), med school would be much more difficult to get into.</p>

<p>

But it’s not a “pointless level of analysis.” It’s an essential part of the overall picture.

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<p>Except that the numbers are largely irrelvant and badly misleading for the same reason that comparing the size of the studen bodies at HLS and GMU not only tells you nothing about the relative selectivity of the two schools but leads you to a conclusion that is totally false.</p>

<p>

but that observation does not obviate the fact that law schools eliminate a significant number of would-be attorneys

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<p>Again, all but the worst schools have negligble attrition rates, and even when students do drop out, it’s often for non-academic reasons. The very fact that applying to law school takes so little commitment and effort (while med school requires four years of commitment and strenuous effort) means that a number of law students really aren’t that into it in the first place.</p>

<p>

It’s perhaps also worth observing that there are states like California that allow people to become members of the bar by untraditional routes

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<p>Well, since these people, by your own admission, account for fewer than 200 people nationwide each year, it’s probably not worth noting.</p>

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The number of graduates of foreign medical schools who become licensed physicians in the US is significantly higher (about 5,000 a year).

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<p>These people are not analagous to the Californians who don’t go to ABA schools. They’re more similar to the foreign law students who enroll in 9-month LLM programs at American schools, without ever having taken the LSAT, and then take the bar. There are thousands of these each year. Plus, it’s much more difficult for foreign med students (and even long-practicing doctors in foreign countries) to become licensed in this country.</p>

[Greybeard]

<p>Amerikanski,</p>

<p>I first responded to one of your posts as a public service, in case there happened to be someone who might be taken in by your assertion that “graduating [from law school] takes no effort at all.”</p>

<p>I’ll contribute one last response to this tedious exchange, on the off chance that someone on the board might not have concluded yet that you make up some of the facts you cite.</p>

<p>Your last post included a reference to “foreign law students who enroll in 9-month LLM programs at American schools, without ever having taken the LSAT, and then take the bar. There are thousands of these each year. Plus, it’s much more difficult for foreign med students (and even long-practicing doctors in foreign countries) to become licensed in this country.”</p>

<p>This is an overstatement with respect to foreign law graduates, and an understatement with respect to graduates of foreign medical schools.</p>

<p>Evidence of the overstatement:</p>

<p>According to the ABA, a total of 4,060 LL.M. degrees were awarded in the United States in 2004, according to the ABA: <a href=“http://www.abanet.org/legaled/statistics/degrees.html[/url]”>http://www.abanet.org/legaled/statistics/degrees.html&lt;/a&gt;. The number exceeded 4,000 for the first tine in 2003, and hit 3,000 for the first time in 1999.</p>

<p>“[R]oughly half of all the individuals currently enrolled in LL.M. programs are graduates of foreign law schools. Upon graduating, many of these individuals return to their home country without seeking or obtaining bar licensure in the United States. However, an increasing number of these individuals seek to be admitted to a state bar.” <a href=“http://www.abanet.org/legaled/postjdprograms/postjdc.html#2foreign[/url]”>http://www.abanet.org/legaled/postjdprograms/postjdc.html#2foreign&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>If many of the roughly two thousand graduates of foreign medical students enrolled in LLM programs return home without taking a US bar exam, it’s clearly an exaggeration to say there are “thousands … each year” who sit for a state bar exam with only an LL.M. An LL.M. alone does not even make you eligible to sit for the bar in 42 states, or the District of Columbia.</p>

<p>Regarding the overstatement: </p>

<p>Jordan J. Cohen, M.D.,President of the - AAMC (Association of American Medical Colleges) said the following in a speech delivered at the association’s Annual Meeting on November 6, 2005:
“Let me ask you a question:
“What fraction of the physicians emerging from ACGME-accredited training programs and joining the practitioner workforce each year do you think are graduates of LCME-accredited medical schools?
“The answer may surprise you. It certainly surprised me. The answer is 64 percent-less than two thirds.
“As Lynn Eckhert noted a few moments ago, of the some 24,000 individuals who funnel through the GME pathway toward independent practice each year, more than one third-over 8,500 individuals-have received their undergraduate medical education from somewhere other than an LCME-accredited school. [Note- by “undergraduate medical education,” he apparently means pre-residency, i.e. medical school education.]
“To be specific, about 2,700 are graduates of osteopathic medical schools, some 1,300 are U.S. citizen graduates of foreign medical schools, largely in the Caribbean, and well over 4,500 are non-U.S. citizens who attended a wide variety of schools abroad.”
<a href=“http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/pressrel/2005/051106.htm[/url]”>http://www.aamc.org/newsroom/pressrel/2005/051106.htm&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p&gt;

<p>Caveat emptor.</p>

[Shark_bite]

<p>Wow, I am extremely confused. Thanks for your help (and numerous posts) but I think I’m just going to focus on getting into a good undergraduate school right now, and worry about this later.</p>

[gen]

<p>You two have certainly scared away shark bike.</p>

[Greybeard]

<p>Shark_bite,</p>

<p>That’s precisely what you should do. If you focus on doing well in school, you’ll improve your odds of entering whatever line of work you ultimately decide is your calling. There’s no need to stress about this - you’re many years away from having to decide whether to go to law school.</p>