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<p>This is why I don’t think you need to worry too much about getting her account numbers from her in advance. The reality is that creditor bills will not go away upon her death, nor will the banks stop sending account information. When my mother died, my father emptied the accounts in her name only by writing a check to himself with one of her checks, and signing her name. It was not complicated.</p>
<p>unfortunately, it seems like it usually takes a hospitalization and a crisis of sorts before movement can be made on some of these issues. one step at a time. with each crisis, the adult child, usually has to step in and take on more responsibilities.</p>
<p>i’m come to the conclusion that one of the best gifts we can give our children is to scale down and get rid of the clutter. my mother is a saver…basically, she didn’t believe in donating items to charity. she just held on to items rather than get rid of them. it’s that depression era mindset. it has taken hours and hours, days and days, weeks and weeks to go through her items as we moved her from her apartment to assisted living. it would have been even worse had she not made earlier moves over recent years (moved from a larger home to a smaller home and then on to an apartment). even with this last move, we removed bags and bags of items that had to go to the trash. we also had boxes and boxes of items for garage sale and charities. it is incredibly frustrating ! so you find yourself not only cleaning out an apartment but also trying to help in dealing with their “health” crisis at the same time.</p>
<p>northeastmom - you are very fortunate to have the dpoa…that is a very good start. do you have it for both medical and general? does she have a living will ?
some bills are critical that they be paid…for instance, the premium for medigap insurance coverage or the premium for long term care coverage…i think you should be able to have a form on file with both of those companies stating that you be notified if there should be a lapse in payment.</p>
<p>I know that some utility companies can have a second name on the account to be used in case of nonpayment. I don’t even know if your mom would even have to know that this has happened. Changes in the elderly can happen quickly. My mom had a horrible UTI last year. She almost died. She really went down mentally after it. She has since moved from a retirement apartment to an assisted living facility. She really likes the place. She likes that she gets 3 meals a day. Aides come in to give her the medication that she takes-- which isn’t much. She thinks that they come to give her tylenal and vitamins!!! I talk to her almost everyday, but she rarely remembers what I tell her. She must ask “what do you know for sure” 5 times in a 6 minute phone conversation. There are lots of things that I don’t tell her so as to not upset her. She gets everything confused. She was such a sharp lady, that it is sad to see her like this.</p>
<p>silverlady - that is so true. uti’s can really throw them for a loop. their thinking becomes “cloudy.”</p>
<p>I could see her not wanting auto bill pay by EFT, but what about signing up for online bill pay where she directs the money to whomever & whenever she needs to. This would mean if she were to be incapacitated, all her billers would show as accounts and you could track them down?</p>
<p>Regarding the key, if you think it will help you and your mom for you to have it, and her fear is the loss of the key, there are a few things that you could talk to her about. (When she is in a good calm mood.) You of course would handle the key with care, eg. I never took it out unless I was going to her house. If lost/stolen, you would immediately replace the lock (which is not a big deal ususally.) An internal door alarm system as a back-up (if she can handle it) also is added security.</p>
<p>Maybe she will let you have the info on her medicare supplement. This really is important, since if it lapses, that is a problem in the event of hospitalization. Some policies are payable on line, and you could perhaps work out some way to check on it this way, which would not bother her by you seeing the physical bill. Where we live the utilities also have back up notification procedures. </p>
<p>It really is a stress to have this situation, but you are not alone. Try to talk to her a little bit at a time, when she is in a good mood. The medical care issues are difficult as well. Some doctors are more experienced dealing with seniors, and if hers is not, sometimes a change could help change her attitude (or maybe not). Parents can be very stubborn, and it is very complicated as to why. The depression era experiences, coupled with the feeling of loss of control and ability is a toughie to overcome.</p>
<p>Thanks all! I will need to give it a rest and address a little bit at a time, as you have all suggested. LOL, her good mood will change to anger as soon as I bring up anything of these things, but I will continue to try ever so slowly.</p>
<p>Good luck, northeastmom.</p>
<p>It’s sad (but comforting, in a way) to see other people going through strikingly similar issues/concerns re: their parents. It took me months to get my parents to do a will (wonderful elder-law attorney helped them) but now I’m not sure if my mom remembers exactly where she put it (says she does, but has forgotten the location of her ‘super-safe-and-secret-spot’ for other important docs, amid the household clutter). </p>
<p>More frustrating is the personality changes that can come w/age and infirmity. Difficult to see a parent who was always the vivacious life of the party turn into a negative, angry person much of the time. Important to remember, I think, that while these emotional changes are sometimes infuriating, it seems that they are equally not-the-fault of the person as physical ailments. That’s hard to remember, at times (e.g., when they are yelling at you).</p>
<p>Jolynne, perhaps the attorney has a copy of the will if it was not written 40 years ago. </p>
<p>My mother has always been an angry person around family. So this is not a new development. It is only getting worse with age.</p>
<p>I’m going to offer one idea which we have used for our parents. We arranged for them to meet with our financial advisor. They allowed us to sit in on the conversations for their optimal money management but we did not obtain specific account details. The meeting goal was for them to optimize their monies for their long term benefit. The advice regarding adding another name to the account, creating POA and wills (and medical advanced directives!) was aimed at wealth management for their future and as a means to easily pass the wealth on when they die.</p>
<p>mominva–my bro & I arranged to have my dad meet w/a new financial advisor. Not a great outcome in our case–he got angry at the advisor, resentful at me for participating (when he had insisted that I participate, initially).</p>
<p>northeastmom–my parents went to a neurologist (at my dad’s insistance; concerned about his memory loss). I mentioned some ‘emotional changes’ to the doctor (my dad admitted he was quicker to anger, etc.). The neurologist said: age amplifies personality. If you were a quiet, brooding person when younger, you’ll become moreso when old; if you were chatty, you can become garrulous, etc. This explanation fits my dad to a T & I have to remind myself of that. And, it helps to consider that we’ll likely all be in that ‘amplified state’ (if we are lucky) at some point down the road. Not that it makes it easy, northeastmom–I know that.</p>
<p>mominva, thanks. Jolynne, my mother would have that exact reaction to a financial advisor. She has her own money manager, so this would never work. BTW, she is not interested in making the transfer of wealth easier. Her concern is that her money stays in tact. I honestly don’t think she cares what happens once she is gone. About the neurologist’s comments, I have heard the same thing.</p>
<p>I tried EVERYTHING you can imagine to encourage my mom to share information with me. She did have a will…but I never saw it until after her death. I did have her bank account numbers and a key to her apartment…but that is only because I insisted that she move closer to where I lived. I rented the apartment for her, and I went WITH her to open the bank accounts.</p>
<p>In the end, I had to do an involuntary conservatorship with her so that I could manage her bills, and other decisions when she no longer could. It was the most difficult thing I ever have had to do. It would have been so much easier for ME if she had agreed to some kind of power of attorney and joint accounts when she was able to make those decisions. BUT that was not how she wanted it. By the time the conservatorship took place, my mom, quite frankly, didn’t know what was going on so it was not hard on her at all.</p>
<p>Do the best you can to get the most information you can. I agree…having your mom speak to a lawyer, and even file her info with the lawyer to be given to you upon her death (our lawyers would have done that) might work.</p>
<p>Thanks thumper. Sorry that you had to go through all of that.</p>
<p>I am so fortunate that my father has allowed us (actually my brothers who live closer) to clean out the attic of 50+ years of accumulated stuff! It has actually given him peace of mind to know that’s one less thing we’ll have to do later.</p>
<p>mommusic–I’ve cleaned out my parents house several times (the first when my mom was in the hospital for 4 days for an operation—I knew she needed to navigate easily when she came home and not dodge piles of boxes). I made at least 10 trips to the dumpster & thrift store and took out 15-20 bags of trash. I also thought (similar to you, I think) that I was grateful to be able to do this at the time, and not be doing it in a state of grief/upset, later.</p>
<p>Of course, they’ve accummulated innumerable boxes of more stuff (junk mail that needs ‘review’, holiday cards, etc.) since then. :-)</p>
<p>I think part of it is the (depression-era) generation – save it all, you never know when you’ll need that tupperware lid, etc.</p>
<p>mommusic, I am so fortunate that my mother downsized in recent years. What was once stuff that accumulated in a 4 BR home with a full basement, has been downsized to stuff in a 2 BR condo with no storage space other than closets.</p>
<p>northeastmom --that is fortunate (although it doesn’t seem so at the time, necessarily!).</p>
<p>Jolynne, I do realize how fortunate I am. My neighbor’s kids have been cleaning out a house for the last 6 months. They were pack rats. Nothing was thrown out in 30 years. Also, when they bought something they did not buy one, but 30 of the same thing. They had 70 bottles of liquor. They threw out what was estimated at 2k in food in the freezer. All of it was too old to eat. There were steaks and lobster tails just sitting there. There were boxes everywhere. Every newspaper was saved for years and years. What a mess!</p>