<p>I have to strongly disagree with this. I believe difficult situations in life are helped by cogent thought or research, followed by intelligent action. For example ---- pick a favorite disease or syndrome. I find that researching the syndrome, learning the pros and cons of various treatments, evaluating those treatments (with professional help, if necessary), and then acting on my educated evaluations will do much more to help the situation than idle prayer. In fact, the time spent praying could be much better used in research and education, IMHO.</p>
<p>What gives me strength is education, not prayer. Wisdom for confronting life’s challenges? Education and cogent thought, 100%.</p>
<p>As far as athletes thanking the Lord for pitching the no-hitter ---- hey, whatever gets them through the night. But I think it’s unfortunate that they don’t take the credit themselves, when they’re the ones who worked hard at it and succeeded.</p>
<p>I do think that the purpose of prayer is to bring us closer to God…not to receive any thing or any outcome. I think that if we were close to God, we wouldn’t be praying “please heal my friend please heal my friend please heal my friend.” We would be listening to God and he would be telling us how to minster to the friend’s family, etc.</p>
<p>Did y’all read Eat Pray Love? I know nothing about Eastern religions and admit that I don’t “get” meditation. The author made it sound like the goal of meditation is to empty your brain of thought. Hmm…so then those who have very little brain activity are closest to God? (Could be…)</p>
<p>I see and understand and experience prayer as a time of closeness with God. The most apt analogy I can think of is that of being a parent. As a parent, I know that my children love me and I love them, but I feel much closer to them when we talk. I may even already know all about what it is they are going to talk about, but it’s nice to hear them express it in their own words. If they ask me to do something for them, I may have to say “no”, but I will try to help them understand why, or to show them, eventually, why that answer is best. </p>
<p>Just as my adult daughter always calls me to talk when she is sick or worried or stressed, I pray to my Heavenly Father to feel close to Him and to feel more at peace during those times…not to ask Him to make everything all better, but just to be close. </p>
<p>And, for the record, I really detest when athletes “thank God/Jesus” at the end of a football game. That is just silly. But prayers beforehand to do their best, to stay safe, to compete well and with good character, that I understand. </p>
<p>I have definitely had situations in my life where specific prayers were not answered in ways I expected. But there are other situations where, unexpectedly and one might say “miraculously”, prayers were answered in a powerful and undeniable way.</p>
<p>I have lived as a non-believer and as a believer. I do not have all the answers, but boy do I appreciate the peace that comes with faith and with prayer.</p>
<p>^^ In my opinion, I wouldn’t put a lot of stock in the author of Eat, Pray, Love. It may be a great read or a good movie, but she’s not someone I’d be taking spiritual advise from. I would think of it more as quieting your mind of all the worries that bounce around our heads constantly. It’s harder to open ourselves when we are distracted. Again, that’s just my opinion…you know I think a great deal of you missypie!</p>
<p>Regarding prayer vs. being proactive in ones health care, I absolutely do not think it’s an either/or proposition. My son had a serious health problem that I was getting no answers from Dr’s and hitting dead ends for over two years. I did a lot of praying for wisdom, answers, a responsive Dr., but I never sat on my rear-end and though God was going to pop those answers into my head. God gave me a brain for a reason and he expects me to use it! I did finally find answers, a wonderful specialist that put us in touch with a surgeon, and we consider it a blessing that he is healthy. I never gave up. I never stopped praying. I do not believe God intends for us to hold vigil and forsake all other avenues to help ourselves and those in our lives. </p>
<p>As for the sports teams. I’m a little put out sometimes. By that logic, if they are thanking God for that ‘win’, is He the one that is responsible for their ‘loss’? Are they blaming him then, or the guy who missed the field goal in the last 30 seconds? Kind of illogical from my vantage point.</p>
<p>As a team my son’s FB team used to pray before games for those that wanted to participate. It was always for the safety of all players on the field and that the words and actions of our players would be pleasing to Him. Pretty simple.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t put a lot of stock in the author of Eat, Pray, Love. It may be a great read or a good movie,</p>
<p>or not
;)</p>
<p>I don’t view meditation as secular or religious- it just is a way of opening up yourself to love and peace.</p>
<p>My daughter was in the NICU when she was born for 8 weeks and although when she was first born she didn’t need oxygen, she took a turn & the prognosis was very poor. ( ( however I was not told just how severe her condition was)
I didn’t pray to a God, but I focused on sending her healing light and at the same time when she was most critically ill, my hands became hot to the touch & throbbed- the drs couldn’t explain it. ( I spent at least 14 hrs a day at the hospital)
They still remember her at the NICU, because it was unusual for a baby to become so sick and not expected to live and then recover in a short ( relatively) amount of time.</p>
<p>If you are interested in learning about Eastern religions, I would recommend Thich Nhat Hahn, his wisdom appeals to people who follow many different paths.</p>
<p>I believe that we need to pray as a form of humility and recognition that we are not the center of the universe. I believe that God is pleased when we acknowledge our dependence on Him/Her. </p>
<p>I rarely ask God for a specific outcome. I only ask Him/Her for the strength to accept his/her will for my life.</p>
<p>What a good question, one that not enough people contemplate. Here is just one opinion:</p>
<p>To ask God to intercede on anyone’s behalf for any reason is useless, for there are billions of people, and many more billions of living things, and each of them has its own needs and wants. To think that God can be, or would be, influenced by the desires of just one of those creatures is nothing but the folly of human arrogance, of the belief that we are the center and purpose of the Universe, when in fact each of us is just one small (if indispensable) part of the whole of Creation.</p>
<p>Therefore, in order to have any effect, prayer must be turned inward, and must have as its aim not the manipulation of the material world (“Please cure my cancer.”) but inspiration of the mind and spirit (“Please give me the emotional strength to fight my cancer.”). This is a reflection of the fact that we can not control other people or events; we can only control how we react to them. And since God has given us these challenges, it is fair to ask for the tools with which to face them. Or, perhaps more accurately, to find the tools we have already been given.</p>
<p>And it is this last statement, I believe, that holds the answer to the question, “How does prayer work?” It works by creating a path between our conscious minds and the many wonderful abilities and insights that lay beneath it. Prayer is a conduit between the material world—that which we can see and touch—and the spiritual world. Whether prayer works through the intercession of God or simply by focusing our own innate power is immaterial. It only matters that you believe that it works somehow, and that you ask only for things that are already inside you, but that you have not yet figured out how to grasp.</p>
<p>Prayers never go answered for those who believe this.</p>
<p>I agree with the poster who said god always answers prayers, just not always with the answers we want.</p>
<p>I was an atheist for most of my adolescence and towards the end of it became more of an agnostic, and there was a point in time in which I really wanted something to happen, and it was really not going my way and it had become obvious it wasn’t going to happen, and I told god, “look, I know you have a plan or whatever, but if you ever want me to believe for ONCE you are just going to have to give me what I want. Do that, and I will believe.” And I did get what I wanted, and as it turns out it was awful and I was permanently scarred and I wish it had never happened. It wasn’t what I thought it was going to be and it didn’t turn out the way I expected. </p>
<p>I kept the bargain I made with god, I believe now. And I’ve also learned to trust the outcomes he chooses for me. That doesn’t mean I don’t work like hell to get what I want, or that I don’t sometimes pray asking for a specific outcome, but in the end I figure he knows what he is doing better than I do and I just ask for the strength to deal with whatever comes in the end-- and that is one prayer he always answers, and there is comfort in that. There is some verse, I forget the whole thing or where it is in the bible, but it goes something like “lean not on your own understanding. trust the lord and your paths will be made straight.” That’s what I try to live by. Some things, like why tragedies happen and why prayers go unanswered, we are perhaps just not meant to understand. And sometimes, like in my case, when you get an answer that isn’t what you wanted it’s actually what was right after all. You never know what would have happened had you gotten what you wanted. If you believe, you just have to have faith that someone out there knew what they were doing even if it was beyond your comprehension.</p>
<p>mep, churchmusicmom, mantori–you have all expressed better what I feel about the concept of prayer than i have been able to. Thank you. As a way of centering self, not asking for granted wishes.</p>
<p>I, like others, really don’t care for the athlete gestures of, for instance, pointing to the sky when they strike someone out. The idea that God is up there directing balls and bats is distasteful to me.</p>
<p>But, I’m odd in that I also detest the statement “everything happens for a reason”. For one, it implies a lack of free will or natural laws–since some outer reason guided us, then we have no choices; we are automatons. That makes life pointless.</p>
<p>And more, it gives meaning to the meaningless in ways which are offensive to me as a human being. When hundreds of thousands of my fellow humans die in an earthquake, there is no “meaning” or “reason” in any moral sense–the only “reason” is that the plates of the EArth shifted and caused a fault to shake. Assigning reason to accident seems the opposite of what spirituality is to me.</p>
<p>My beloved sister-in-law was killed by the actions of a stupid, thoughtless “missionary.” he actually wrote to the family, speaking about “God’s will.” (though perhaps it WAS God’s will keeping one of us from doing him bodily harm.) When anyone used that phrase–everything happens for a reason–it seemed like such a pat trivialization of a life. I really don’t like it at all.</p>
<p>Wow this is the second time in 2 days on CC when I’ve used these words: Neo-Calvinism v. Arminianism. Basically, there is a big increase in churches preaching that everything that happens is God’s will (neo-Calvinism). Most mainline Protestant churches (and Roman Catholic) stick to the free will argument (Arminianism). I believe that humanity exercising free will is responsible for much of the evil/tragedies in the world. Not everything that happens is God’s will - in fact, I believe that acts of evil are against God’s will. And then there are natural forces that, I believe, are value neutral. Human beings are sometimes just in the way - not God’s will, it just happens. Luckily, I believe that God is there to help us pick up the pieces.</p>
<p>I don’t know if prayer “works” or not, but it works for me! I feel that it’s a very personal relationship that I have with God, a time for me to offer my heartfelt thanks and to ask for guidance, and I truly do feel strengthened and at peace when I pray. Often, prayer is the only mechanism I have to release my stress and concerns so the sense of clarity and calm feels like emotional healing to me. Although my prayers may not be helping others directly, I try to think of the larger picture - adding my prayers for the world as a whole to those of countless others - and pray for Him to make me aware of and sensitive to others who may need my help. I understand that all of us are here temporarily and we all have freedom to choose and that bad things often happen to good people. It doesn’t make sense to me that it would work any differently…painful though that can be. I don’t remember ever being taught that God was going to deliver me a painless and happy life.</p>
<p>I’m not in any position to judge whether this is effective or not, as I don’t know what would hppen if everyone suddenly ceased praying entirely. I have a feeling that we may make the world a bit better for actively thinking about this each day. If not, I can only pray that we won’t make it any worse!</p>
<p>Interesting and timely thread for me.
I am not overly religious, but have faith. I also know that there is no such thing as an Atheist in a foxhole.
With that being said, my brother was riding his bike this morning and was hit by a car. The car won. My brother broke his neck, shoulder, and ankle. But his spinal cord will live to see another day.</p>
<p>So today I pray for his recovery and pray for thanks for having injuries that he will recover from. He will ride again (his passion)…and walk again!
So today I hope prayer works. Can it hurt to pray? I think not. So just as doctors use everything they have to cure their patients I will use everything I have to help my brother as well. Maybe my faith will be stronger because of today. </p>
<p>While I am at it I must pray for the man who hit him. This was just an accident…partly my expert bike riding brother’s fault…but I am sure that driver is just beside himself. One second changed lives — I better include the bike helmet manufacturer and designer.</p>
<p>See, the list never ends…and never should. You never know what a positive impact your prayers may bring.</p>
<p>College- many prayers for your brother and those who are otherwise involved in his situation. I know that my prayers cannot change God’s decision- but I know in my heart, that I need to pray for you and your brother. Many blessings, PIPMOM</p>
<p>Pipmom- thank you.
I am thinking God has a plan for my brother to be more than the great man he already is. I can see him giving talks to school kids on bike safety and wearing a helmet. He has that kind of personality…and now he has about 6 month off of biking. What a nice thing to do to fill his time! Where a door closes, a window opens.</p>
<p>Thank you. I shudder every time I hear someone say this, and I hear it a lot. It implies that God deliberately puts suffering in our lives because we need to learn something. As in the parent analogy mentioned above, it would be as if any of us parents, deciding our child needed to learn a lesson, deliberately caused unnecessary pain or grief in their life so they could learn from it. I’m sorry, life is full of enough learning opportunities for God to create more.</p>
<p>However, what I do believe is that we can create meaning out of tragedies. We see this all the time. Many non-profit groups are begun because someone felt a passion about an issue that usually impacted them personally… probably not a particularly pleasant event, but something they then chose to channel the negative energy toward. And good comes from it. Not everyone makes these difficult choices, though.</p>
<p>Ilovedcollege, I’m sure you didn’t mean to offend me by trivializing my beliefs, but I assure you, many atheists remain atheists even in difficult times. I don’t object to those of you who believe there’s a God. Please respect my strong belief that no God exists.</p>
<p>I’m sure that some of you can offer anecdotes of people who came to faith during life stresses. Fine. And there are also anecdotes of people who came to disbelieve in God during life stresses.</p>
<p>I cannot think of any situation where a loving parent, and certainly my loving God, would deliberately cause “unnecessary pain or grief” in order to teach someone they love a lesson. But there are times when you know your children have to learn by experience. That you will not do them any favors by giving them everything they think they want or need. When you have to watch them go through with something that will most certainly not be in their best interest, but you are there ready to help them through when all is said and done. And to let them know they are loved.</p>
<p>What I do think has become clear in my life is that I (like everyone) have found myself in awful, painful situations. I do not think for a moment that God put me there on purpose! But I do believe that, given time and my paying attention, God causes some kind of “good” to come from those situations. It comforts me to know that He is there to make sure that I am aware of the good that eventually is apparent.</p>
<p>Wow guys, wow. I posted this only this morning. Come back after a long day of work…and there is so many great ideas and thoughts to read. I really appreciate those who have posted. And I’ve learned a lot so far.</p>
<p>Heyalb, maybe it really depends upon what one means by “inevitable”? I’m Ms. Logic-and-research-fixerupper myself. And I agree, many things can be fixed and we should seek to fix them. </p>
<p>But some things are beyond our control and at those times, we just need assistance with coping and acceptance. As I age, I’ve come to realize there is more I can not fix and a lot more things that are simply painful and inevitable. Bad outcomes of life, happen to all of us. And all the post-hoc resourcefulness in the world can not solve or take away the pain. Such as when someone you love deeply, who is young, dies. I have found my research and education has not helped me cope.</p>