How does prestige matter for kids who want to go into business?

Parents Forum
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S28 thinks he wants to do something that involves some combination of math, computers and business. He thinks he might want to work in finance, be a business analyst, or a forensic accountant, or work in cybersecurity.

His Dad says that that these are fields where the name on the diploma matters, and that he should aim for the “best” school he can get into. He says that something like an economics or applied math degree from a NESCAC or other highly ranked school will put him in a better place than a directly related degree such as business from a lower ranked school, because in the business world alumni networks matter a lot.

Do people agree?

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Those are three very different areas of interest, and will suggest different schools.

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It depends on the ultimate goal (you’ve listed multiple possible careers), the type of education desired (economics and an undergrad business degree have different curriculums), the preferred environment, and affordability.

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I think networking is often important in launching business careers, and I think generic “prestige” sentiments often do a poor job assessing networking opportunities. Like different colleges can have much stronger networks in different locations, fields, and so on than others. And then realistically, not everyone at a college may have the same networking opportunities, it can depend on what program you are in, how you do generally, whether you do a good job networking through the right professors, and so on.

My two cents is first your S28 needs to decide if he wants to try out an undergrad business program, and if so what type. If he hasn’t already, I’d recommend he check out the undergrad program descriptions at Poets & Quants to get some sense of what different programs might be like (I wouldn’t put too much stock in the exact rankings, though):

OK, then some kids end up very enthusiastic about doing undergrad business, some aren’t interested at all despite being possibly interested in a business career, and some are open to trying it out but not completely committed. These three different possible attitudes would potentially point to three different sorts of lists.

So that is why I think this is something your S28 would need to reflect on. But I don’t think one sort of list is inherently better than the other two. I think the best bet is figuring out what sort of list makes the most sense for you as an individual, at least given where you are at the time you are applying.

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I very much disagree.

If one wants to be a business analyst, at a regular company, you will have people from state schools, directionals, low end private colleges and more. It won’t matter if you go to top schools like Indiana / Texas or if you go to Kansas or Oklahoma or Kennesaw State.

Forensic accountant - most everyone offers accounting and thus far, at least, it’s a bullet proof field. You can do well from anywhere.

Cyber Security is anew derivative, sometimes in CS programs. There’s a lot of secondary schools offering cyber programs vs. regular CS. There’s even schools like Dakota State, which isvone of only nine institutions nationwide to hold all three National Security Agency Center of Academic Excellence designations.

So, short of a high end Wall Street type of job, I’m going to disagree with your husband. And these are three areas that continue to hire.

Your son should find the right school for him, that the family can easily afford without heartache, whether it’s a NESAC type school (but they don’t necessarily match this job list) or mid or large size public, for access to the types of jobs you mentioned above.

In the real world, UCLA works for Long Beach State, Harvard Law for Fairleigh Dickinson, Georgia Tech for Kennesaw - and the various colleges on my team - Syracuse, U Miami, U Florida - we all work for a West Georgia - and we have MBAs. The boss doesn’t. Yes, I never heard of W Georgia either.

With my MBA, I’ve worked for underrgrads from U of Phoenix grad, a Bradley (Illinios), Georgia State, Alabama State, W Georgia. I think only one had an MBA.

My son from Alabama, interned with kids from Ga Tech but also Tennessee Tech, UTK, Texas A&M - they come from all over. In his current job, they hire from Akron to Purdue, Alabama to Case Western.

My daughter went to a regional public (College of Charleston) and interned for our state and for a top think tank in DC.

So many think - two kids one with a higher rank, the lower rank will work for the higher rank. It could be but it also may not be. The world doesn’t operate with such certainty like that. Kids ultimately create their success. Students should find the right place for themselves, one that will give them an avenue to explore and excel, regardless of the name strength in my opinon.

Good luck.

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Directionally, DH is probably correct. I mean, the reality is that you can bushwack your way from one place to another with time, effort and luck. But as a plan, my Mom always said, “Aim high.”

As far as NESCAC is concerned, it probably wouldn’t hurt to also be a recruited athlete as that is often an added value when it comes to networking.

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Does your son want to major in accounting ?

An accounting degree can yield a career in forensic accounting or cyber security as well as in finance and business analyst roles.

Big 4 accounting firms (PwC, EY, KPMG, & Deloitte) hire college interns. Big 4 accounting firms have consulting arms in addition to audit.

Two of the best accounting schools are the University of Illinois and the University of Texas at Austin. However,any fully accredited accounting program should be sufficient to get your son where he wants to be professionally if he earns high grades.

For a career in the Big 4 accounting world, the typical prestigious schools are not a factor.

For a career in investment banking, a prestigious undergraduate school should be considered. U Penn-Wharton School of Business, NYU-Stern, any Ivy League university, or any top 5 or so LAC. Williams College, the top ranked LAC, has a great math major for example.

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Both my daughters work in finance - one is in CIB and one in CRE (8 years apart in age). My CIB daughter graduated from a top program (KF at UNC), my CRE daughter graduated from a very solid program (Pamplin at VT). Both had very similar recruiting opportunities and actually ended up being recruited through the same program to the same bank. I will say that living in NC, the networking opportunities for my Tar Heel were plentiful (no surprise that there are many Tar Heels who remain in NC) however, I was pleasantly surprised how many Pamplin grads end up in this area as well. They have a very active pipeline in our city and have quite a few alumni events.

CIB and more so, IB, are competitive fields in finance. When my oldest entered that field 9 years ago, she was working with grads from mostly the top business/finance programs in the country. My CRE daughter is beginning her 2nd year, and as tsnab44 mentioned above, she is working with graduates from all over - fellow Pamplin grads, regional state u’s, LAC’s and also some Ivies.

For the super competitive finance careers at the top companies, prestige plays a key role but there are multiple tools in the toolbox - networking, solid interviewing skills, involvement in business clubs - especially those that participate and place in competitions, landing internships, etc.

At the end of the day, I agree with this:

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True, but at 16 he doesn’t have enough experience with the world to know what he wants.

He wants small school. The way we see it there are two options. He can go to a school with a variety of specific majors, and the possibility of switching. Or he can go to an LAC, and study something like Econ, math or CS, and plan on grad school.

Where we disagree, is on which of these two options. Dad likes the LAC option because he thinks he can get into a brand name school, and that brand name will help him in his career. The small schools with business type majors, in his mind, have less prestige. He also figures that he will want a grad degree regardless of undergrad major.

If kid had a clear opinion on what major he wants, that would be different, but I am not really sure how a 16 year old would know if he likes Econ or accounting better. Neither is an option at his high school.

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A LAC is usually not the path if you want to do accounting or cybersecurity, although, technically, anything is possible. Some school like UMD is good for cybersecurity — close to Washington DC, for example, with a lot of cybersecurity jobs, and therefore a lot cybersecurity programs in the school. Accounting I think is less pedigree oriented. You need your CPA at some point, which carries more weight than the undergrad college.

The LAC is for a general , currently undecided business path, or of course liberal arts etc. Or Math, and to a lesser extent CS.

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His dad is correct (with a caveat) - speaking from our particular environment here in an affluent area in the Northeast. The caveat is that he should find the school that fits him the best (and vice versa), instead of going for the highest ranked one. The other upside of this approach is that being in a liberal arts environment may help discover new interests (i.e. one reason to go to college) and he may end up going in a completely different direction, in a good way. A preprofessional business major would not provide the same opportunity. It’s less about rankings and more about the general vision of why one goes to college.

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The school can matter for IB, MBB/other selective consulting, quant analyst/trader jobs.

Is your S interested at all in studying econ or math? I would NOT go to an LAC without business majors thinking one will study econ if they’ve had no exposure to it. At the very least, kid would need a back up major should they hate econ, as some (maybe many) students do. FYI, my D is in IB and was a neuroscience major.

I also want to make that point that at the highly rejective LACs, the athlete alumni networks are really strong, even across schools. I am less sure about non-athlete alum networking…IMO it’s likely more difficult for non-athletes to network into the elite jobs. Either way though, students really have to initiate connections…I would think critically wrt to your S’s natural inclinations here. I have one natural networker, and one who spurns it. Networking can be learned, but still requires effort and getting out of one’s comfort zone.

I agree with neela that if your S wants accounting, an LAC without an accounting major is not the way to go. Cybersecurity is a bit more broad, but also agree many LACs are probably not ideal for this major.

Hopefully, your S will narrow things down over the next year. If he remains undecided, I would go with the college environment he most wants. Generally, I counsel students to not get on the prestige bus, unless they are targeting highly rejective careers like IB/quant/MBB.

Last point on that…they need a high SAT or ACT for many employers of those careers. I know plenty of HS seniors who think they want these careers who continue to test to get higher scores, even after they were accepted to colleges. Most HS seniors have little idea what these careers entail, they just look shiny because of the $.

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Networking outside the LACs is not athletics focussed though. For example networking for CS it is quite different. Also for Math. Or for IB jobs from those majors at non LACs .

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At the top larger business programs the jobs often come to you via on campus recruiting by top tier firms. No shooting out 100s of resumes to try to get through the AI screeners. I would estimate at least half of each grad class gets jobs this way.

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Very possible. We have no experience with business hiring from our kids side. But have a lot of experience shooting out 100s of resumes :-). As an employee of a large firm in the past i have experience in interviewing, but don’t know how the funnel worked before I got to see the kids.

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He’s never been a kid who loves the academic part of school, but his math and computer classes are the ones he likes the best or maybe dislikes the least. He hasn’t found an academic discipline he loves.

Yes, he could discover he doesn’t love Econ, but of course he could also discover that he doesn’t love business or accounting or cybersecurity. Or he could fall in love with something new.

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For sure. You have nearly a year before he has to make application decisions. You might visit a wide range of schools to see what appeals to him beyond academics. Since he doesn’t love academics, I might steer clear of relatively more rigorous/intensely academic schools.

Where he is with potential majors and career goals next summer will dictate his list, as well as budget, as applicable. Hopefully there is a large intersection of affordable schools with the vibe and majors he wants.

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Likely very true. Junior year, my son went through four majors. On our first visits, it was Astrophysics. Then professional pilot. Then atmospheric science/meteorology. And then he ended up in mechanical engineering, because he thought it had better job prospects.

A student who doesn’t know what they want, in some regards, is better to choose a school with more. There are small schools, LACs or otherwise, that have business if it’s an interest - and btw, in salary surveys, those with business and engineering, do better, than even the top LACs. That’s why Bucknell is often a high rated LAC in those type surveys.

Then you have focused schools like Babson and Bentley, that are mainly business driven.

Here’s the thing about a more comprehensive university - they also are LACs - or have the same majors. It’s their College of Liberal Arts and Sciences.

I think, honestly, your son doesn’t know what he wants and at 16, why should he?

Some want to study a profession, like accounting or cyber. Others, want a broad based education and they’ll figure it out later - whether it’s econ, poli sci, socioloty, or English. They might be more likely to end up in grad school.

Then there’s the cost issue - you can go to an LAC or private university for $100K or $40K. Does that matter to a family - x4 years. It’s the same with a public - some are $25K-ish and others are $85K-ish. Is that delta worth it?

I do think, there are certain, high end, more boutique like fields where it’s validated that some schools provide an advtange. For most, I don’t think that’s the case, at least significant enough to justify a cost, if cost / value is a consideration for the family.

Your son wants small - but has he visited schools? If not, I would visit some around home or on family trips throw a few in. You’d be amazed at how many who want something, once they step foot on campus - they decide - it’s too small or too big or too urban or this or that. So forgetting the names, visits schools of different sizes, formats, etc. to validate a belief up front.

You have plenty of time - so the student doesn’t need to be pigeonholed into a school type or major. Heck, even after you’re at school or pick a major, you aren’t necessarily pigeon typed. Sure, an accounting major will most likely end up in accounting, but not all. Same with engineering. But it’s the econ major or anthropology major or classics major - they are the one, you really don’t know where they’re going to end up - in insurance claims? Sales? Grad school? A company’s marketing and customer service rotational?

But I would think if accounting or cyber were possible homes in a year from now, I would steer away from LACs, short of a Richmond or Bucknell type that would have offerings - in order to keep options open.

But I do think it’s time to explore - maybe look at curriculums (it’s easy to say I want to be an accountant - do you know what they even study??). and unless you’re willing and able to spend max $$ for something that could be had for less, then you need to talk about budget too.

The truth is - kids have to be lucky - right place, right time. It may be from them putting themselves out there. It may be from a prof giving a recommendation about them to someone they know. It may be sitting on an airplane flying home and striking up a conversation with someone who can help them.

So in my mind, lots to think about versus narrowing down at this minute. You mentioned there’s no academic area he loves - maybe he starts undeclared and finds something to like or love during that first two years. Maybe a school like Kalamazoo or Wheaton that have limited gen ed requirements gives him a chance to explore.

Of course, we don’t know anything about the student - stats, budget, desires (like where, etc.) but there will be options. Some kids would love to attend a top school whatever that means but they say it - but their stats don’t translate to the schools they desire.

Lots of kids don’t have areas they love. Lots of kids end up in college because what else am I going to do or it’s the expectation. Some will do fine - others will struggle because they’re not inclined to study.

There’s not one way to success. And there is no assurance of success, no matter where you attend.

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Just a thought, but it feels to me like some Catholic, mostly Jesuit, colleges could be a good compromise. Many are located in large metros and have strong undergrad business programs with great networking opportunities. But they are also generally strong in liberal arts and sciences, so you can easily pivot to things like Econ or Math or really a lot more, if that sort of undergrad curriculum ends up making more sense for you. And while they take academics seriously, the general spirit is one of balance between studying and living in the world.

This balance avoids going all in on either business programs or liberal arts and sciences without knowing which will really be best, and without sacrificing networking opportunities. And there is a wide range of these by selectivity so you can really build a whole balanced list this way.

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Just for fun: