How does the percentage of student athletes impact a student's experience?

Parents Forum
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I have read a lot of comments on how certain schools have a high percentage of athletes. It’s usually presented as a negative, and I am trying to understand what impact it would have on my kids.

If you have an athletic kid, who loves sports and played throughout their K-12 years, and who wants to continue to be physically active but isn’t planning to play on a college team, how does the impact their school experience? Does it make it easier for your athletic kid to find people to do athletic things (e.g. go on a hike, play in a pickup basketball game, join a club sport) or harder? I feel as though having a lot of athletic kids around could be good, but not if they are cliquish?

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Athletes tend to be cliquish at all schools, but less noticeable at large schools due to the percentages.

Athletic activities are available at all schools for both athletes and non-athletes, but the facilities may differ by school.

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I went to a P4 school, where over four years I got to know one fencer, and otherwise did not know any athletes. They lived in different dorms, and ate in different dining halls, and if they were in my classes, I did not get to know them well enough for it to come up in a conversation.

I assume that experience is different at some place like a NESCAC that might have 30% of their students on school teams. I’m just trying to figure out how that might impact my kid who currently doesn’t plan to play an NCAA sport, but who definitely will want to be active at a pretty high level.

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To clarify my own post, I am less concerned about facilities, and more concerned about the “people to do stuff with” part of this.

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My non-athlete is a recent Williams graduate. Club and intramural sports are very popular; I suspect this is true at most NESCACs. I was floored when my daughter ended up playing intramural basketball and softball. Her teams weren’t great, but they had a lot of fun.

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If you might consider friendliness to be associated with your inquiry, note that sonme schools with a high percentage of student-athletes, such as Claremont McKenna and Hamilton appear to be friendlier than most based on survey information:

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Here’s the distinction as I see it:

Varsity athletes, because of the nature of their constant training, practices, and their travel for competitions…they socialize with each other, because that’s who they’re spending almost all their time with (by necessity) outside of their classes. The clique aspect is not because they’re standoffish or unkind by default, it’s because they nearly only have rich, friendship-building shared experiences with their teammates in their sport, because they simply don’t get to have the kind of time one needs to branch out and develop friendships or do other things (and what time they do have, it’s usually with people who are in their major, for that’s where they are when they’re not committed team tasks).

My son’s first year roommate was a varsity swimmer - one of the nicest people you could ever hope to have as a roommate, a true gem. But his days and weekends were completely booked with swim practice, gym time, team time, and travel to meets.

Varsity athletes by and large also won’t get to have the free time to play a pick up game or go on a hike or a weekend away. They have to choose to devote their time to their sport over all else. They’re in their own ecosystem, one that the non-varsity students don’t live in.

Markers that your student might look for if they’re seeking a bunch of active kids at their future school are:

  • The level of involvement in club/intramural sports or activities and the attitude around them (what variety of activities are there, are they well attended, are they funded by the school or student body in some manner, is there a mix of kids involved, are there activities all year, are they the type of activities your student might enjoy?)
  • If there are plenty of athletic facilities available for non-varsity athletes to use, and the condition, location, and level of use they receive (on a tour are you seeing the gyms that are just for the varsity athletes? If there is not a separate gym for non-varsity students, what are the hours that non-varsity students can use the gym, i.e. are there blackout times and days that you can’t work out? Can non-varsity kids use the indoor tennis courts? What are the open swim hours?)
  • The availability of classes, workshops, or outdoor programs that students can enroll and partake in (are there places and occasions to learn new things and try new activities? Is there equipment or gear available for kids wanting to try something new?)

My kid needs/wants to be very active, and he is also not a varsity athlete. At college he’s been involved in both club sports and pick up ultimate frisbee, sand volleyball, indoor pool kayak (rolling and river skills, games), indoor and outdoor climbing, and many outdoor trips through his college. He’s taken multiple classes learning new skills, became a certified climbing guide, wilderness first responder, along with outdoor leadership classes and winter wilderness skills. He’s been very lucky to be at a place that’s a good fit for being the type of “active” that he enjoys.

Every school will be different, really drilling down into what is available outside of the varsity sports programs will give you a better idea of whether or not that aspect of student life is a good fit for your student.

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In my experience, athletic kids who enjoy playing lots of sports and aren’t attached to a certain one that doesn’t exist as a club/intramural sport - so either football or something niche - are often very happy at liberal arts schools, like those in the NESCAC/Patriot/similar leagues, where they’re surrounded by both athletes competing for their university’s varsity teams and can play sports with other like-minded kids.

Put more simply, club sports/casual sports/outdoor activities are very popular at many colleges, big and small. This is also generally pretty easy to figure out for an individual school.

I think what people do worry about is cliqueish-ness, and that does happen, but it’s usually individual teams at individual schools - e.g. maybe the equestrian team at Auburn or the men’s lacrosse team at Richmond are insular, but not all the teams are.

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My kids also want friendly peers, but I’m not sure that what I’m worried about is that the athletes would be unfriendly. So, maybe cliquish was the wrong word. I wonder if kids who are practicing and competing with their team on an intense level, are going to have less of an interest in pick up basketball or something like that.

Actually, I don’t know what I’m worried about, other than I feel like I have heard a number of people recently say that they aren’t looking at NESCACs because there are “too many athletes” are that their kids are looking for schools with “not a lot of athletes”. I’m trying to understand that criticism.

S28 isn’t going to look at most NESCAC’s because he wants engineering, but he’ll probably look at schools like Lafayette and Rose Hulman that have a similar percentage of athletes.

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Can you give me some guidance on figuring this out?

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Very common statement/sentiment as the cliquish nature of athletes,which occurs at all schools big & small, is much more pronounced at small schools due to the high percentage of varsity athletes.

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I don’t have deep experience with this, but I can relay how Haverford College was discussed by a friend of mine. He noted that 40% of students are in varsity sports, which is quite a lot. But it’s something like over 60% that are involved in some sport including club sports. That’s really a lot and he notes that the gym at 2pm on a weekday is often pretty full with students that are NOT on organized teams, but that are working out, running on treadmills, etc. I’d venture to say that’s it’s part of the culture of the school. So if your kid is someone that is somewhat athletic and might want to participate in some type of athletics, a school like Haverford becomes a good fit. If not, then you’re a little bit on the outside. Now, how much this is a problem for an individual is up to them, but you’d be outside of the mainstream and I think one should know that going into it.

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My read of this reaction is that these are kids (or parents of kids) who are not interested in athletics - either as participants or spectators - and in their high school experience, have found their way in the world without meaningfully interacting with athletes. Then they hear that NESCACs are 1/3 athletes, assume that those students’ identities are entirely wrapped up in athletics (which can be true, but is certainly not universal), and freak out a little bit, worry about finding their people, etc. I’d note that at least I hear about this much more as a concern from prospective students than from current or graduated students. I understand why you’d react to that common response but I don’t think it’s actually a thing for you or your child to worry about.

I think it will be pretty clear. Even if you don’t visit, schools will publicize their % of students playing intramural sports, you can easily see what their club sport situation is, Instagram helps, etc. You/your child will be able to get a feel. As an example, Davidson (which competes DI in most sports but is otherwise a typical liberal arts school) lists their club sports here (and I know at least one that’s missing). You can get a sense that this is a place where athletic kids who aren’t playing varsity will find a home.

Maybe not less of an interest, but perhaps not the time in season. But your child will find plenty of people to play basketball with almost anywhere.

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I am looking vaguely at a college for my 27 and I figured out about 35-40% of same gender kids will be on a varsity sport. That worries me as my kid honestly couldn’t care less about sports, would have zero interest in hearing about them or watching them. They avoided private HS with a lot of sports requirements or teams. They don’t know March Madness is happening, or opening day was this week and have no desire to.

I am concerned at this school that if 40% of kids of their gender will have a natural friend group (their team) and they will spend a huge amount of their time, which means they won’t have time to spend in clubs or other activities and will be traveling for away games, and during breaks for the off-season. What does that mean for dedicate and robustness of other things? I do not that they won’t be good roommates (I lived with a varsity athlete a couple times in college as a randomly assigned person way back when) or floor mates, etc., or can’t be friends at all. However, ports take a huge amount of time and mental energy at any level… I am not saying this is a total deal breaker, but I do think it is a part of campus life that has an impact on all kids if it is THAT high of a percentage. It also just leaves fewer kids to “find their people” in an already smallish school

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It think it is a much bigger deal at very small schools. At mid size schools, 60% of kids who are non-athletes is still a very big number. Athletes end up self-segregating due to their schedules, so you will mostly be around people where it’s not an issue.

At very small schools, especially those with little or no Greek presence, athletes can also determine the social scene. At some schools you will hear that the athletes all live together in off campus houses, throw all the parties, you can’t get in if you “don’t know an athlete”. I think the social scene at these schools is pretty well known ahead of time and they tend to be small D3 regional schools.

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From what I can tell, the issue about varsity athletic teams dominating the social scence is potentially worth serious consideration, but a relatively high percentage of varsity athletes does not automatically mean that is true of that college’s social scene. It might be a necessary condition (like if there is only 10% varsity athletes that probably can’t happen), but it isn’t a sufficient one.

So basically, I think you have to try to gather information on this issue from those with actual direct experience, not just look at reported percentages of varsity athletes.

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For those wanting a smaller school with a lower percentage of varsity athletes look for a school without a football team. My D22 is at Vassar which has no football team and where less than 20% of students are varsity athletes. As far as I can tell women’s rugby is the biggest sport there. Some kids definitely play club sports, and there is a thriving outdoor sports scene, but many kids seem involved in theater, dance, music or other clubs as their extracurriculars.

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We have a close family member who was a varsity athlete at Canisius in upstate NY. When my younger kid was recently searching the family member said (paraphrasing) I love Canisius but don’t go here if you are not playing a sport, the social life is built around the teams.

It’s only one anecdotal story but it did influence our search. Small colleges with less than 2k people and a big chunk of athletes slipped down the list.

This is not a criticism of Canisius. Family member enjoyed their time there.

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Such a great question. At any school, big or small, D1 to D3, the athletes are going to be spending a lot of time on their sport and with their teammates in a way that cannot be anything but exclusive of non-teammates. At big (D1) schools, for example, students often talk of wanting to meet players, who may be celebrities of sorts! At D3 schools, they are more accessible but yes, also segregated for part of the time.

Practices, games, spring training, service obligations, etc. are all things that separate them from others and help them bond with each other. And because the rhythm of their lives may be different – rowers who need to be on the water at daybreak, for example, or athletes that don’t party during the season - it’s also often attractive for them to room together because they too feel some isolation from the rest of the student body.

With all that said, my sense (having been a D3 athlete back in the day and having also been the parent of one), the smaller schools offer a better opportunity for athletes and non-athletes to mix, and I think that desire is genuine on both sides to do so. Some of it is at the beginning, like orientation trips. Some is during the school year - short terms in particular - but also smaller classes, study groups, even housing arrangements that allow and encourage regular interaction. Study abroad - even short term travel - opens up new social avenues. And kids this age are often looking for that!

For a kid who has always done sports, I think there is a bit of a feeling of missing out - especially at the beginning while new freshmen are looking for their people. - But the athletes likewise complain of not being able to do outdoor club snowshoeing weekends or hikes, and more than a few will abandon their sports to have the freedom non-athletes had from the get-go. It helps to have non-athletic interests as athletes and non-athletes alike will host radio shows, sing a capella, do volunteer work, etc. And at some of these schools, everyone attends hockey games or whatever.

I would suggest you ask students less about the divide and more about what structures exist to facilitate mixing. Orientation. Campus wide traditions. Departmental events. Short terms. Housing. Intramurals. Definitely ask about weekends, what people do, and who is doing the arranging.

The tldr answer is yes, there is some segregation, especially early on, and also, given the smaller campus and desire there new people and socialize, it’s often a non-existent line by graduation.

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My dd was an athlete at a NESCAC. One of her closest friends was her roommate from freshman year, a non-athlete. My dd played on intramural sports teams during her off-season and met many non-collegiate athletes that way. She had a very diverse friend group.

Obviously when in season, the athletes’ social time is almost nonexistent. When they aren’t practicing, traveling to games or in classes they are typically studying. Their teammates are also like their family. Only they can truly understand each others’ struggles, so I can get why they tend to stick together. My DD’s grad year teammates were all STEM majors except for one. The four of them were always in the library studying together when they had some free time.

They weren’t “clicky” to stick together and avoid making friends with other people, it was just that during their in-season it was the easiest way to find study partners or to have someone to decompress with who understood what they were going through. They had the same times available to get food together which was usually much earlier or much later than the rest of the student body, so they’d wind up eating together in the cafe. It was just more convenient for her as an athlete.

That being said, my dd truly enjoyed her off-season time when she was able to mingle more with students who weren’t athletes.

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