How far to push them out of their comfort zone (and how hard to push)?

Parents Forum
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<p>I thought that once all of the decisions were in, the hardest part would be over because we could focus on actual, real, hard-and-fast options. But I did not anticipate that son would essentially be stuck (or so it seems to me). On one hand, he has three fine options (Dartmouth, WashU, and Rhodes) so in my good moments I think, there is no really bad outcome here. On the other hand, I think son might be gravitating towards Rhodes for the wrong reasons. It’s close to home (but not at home, like WashU is), and it’s less demanding (at least in his mind–and after being rejected by four of the “top” schools I think his confidence is shaken).</p>

<p>On the other thread I started about this, I got lots of suggestions that he should visit Dartmouth. I agree completely but he seems fine with ruling Dartmouth out as “too expensive” (although we have told him he should not base his decision on money). I do not want to push too hard because I do not want him to think that I disapprove of his choice of Rhodes (if that’s what it turms out to be). And I really, truly think Rhodes would be just fine. But thinking some years down the road, I can’t help but wonder if a Dartmouth degree (if not education) would serve him better. Am I just being a “prestige snob”?</p>

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<p>You can’t tell which would serve him better. If, for instance, he decides to live after graduation in Memphis or Tennessee, Rhodes probably would serve him better.</p>

<p>If at Rhodes, he meets a professor who takes an interest in him and gives him lots of encouragement and opportunities to do research, etc., he may end up at a top 10 graduate or professional school.</p>

<p>He could go to Dartmouth and decide to live in rural New Hampshire as a farmer for the rest of his life.</p>

<p>You can’t predict what will happen. If he really loves Rhodes, my advice is to let him follow his heart. If at the tail end of April, however, he decides to visit Dartmouth, I suggest biting the bullet and buying the high priced ticket to send him so he can make up his mind after reviewing more of the options.</p>

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<p>Dartmouth might serve him better if he wanted to go there, but it seems like maybe he doesn’t. And many kids want to stick a bit closer to home… moving across the country might have seemed like a good idea in theory, but now that it’s turning into a reality it’s understandable that your S might change his mind. </p>

<p>Ultimately, I would suggest you think about where your son would do his best, and which school would benefit him more in that sense. If he is miserable at Dartmouth, his academics will suffer, and if this is the case then he’d be much better off doing awesome at Rhodes.</p>

<p>The prestige of Dartmouth isn’t really something that can be ignored, but this is ultimately your S’s choice to make. You can talk to him all you want, but you can’t force him, and you shouldn’t try to.</p>

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<p>Check out curmudgeon’s posts. His D chose Rhodes over Yale (I think a great scholarship helped her selection) and has had a fabulous experience there.</p>

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<p>I highly recommend that you and son hop on a plane and get to the upcoming admitted student’s weekend at Dartmouth (it might be this coming weekend . . .). My DS was thinking U of Washington (where he had a nice offer) – but Dartmouth offered a spot, so off he went to take a look. He absolutely loves it and has not looked back. It is far from home but we manage.<br>
The final choice is the kid’s. But you can insist that he take an honest and complete look at his options. Haul him off and go kick the tires! If nothing else, you’ll be showing him how to really review choices throughly. All that for the cost of a plane ticket? A no brainer! IMHO.</p>

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<p>I agree with this advice. If you are comfortable with the money issues, help him get comfortable with moving out into the big world. A lot of that can come from saying, “I’ll always care about you and be proud of you wherever you go,” while making clear that you think he should explore all possibilities before making up HIS mind. </p>

<p>Congratulations on the great set of choices.</p>

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<p>For what it’s worth, my daughter has come to regret the geographical distance from home of her college. She’s gotten used to it (lots of flying and no problem there so far). And, since she hasn’t been able to come home much, she’s had to adjust. In the long run, it’s probably good for her personal growth, but it’s been a bumpy adjustment.</p>

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<p>I’m a huge believer in pushing kids out of their comfort zone, my oldest would still be home (he’s 24 and in grad school) if we didn’t push.</p>

<p>I’m also the mom of a Dartmouth freshman. I think you and DS will also wonder if you don’t at least visit. It’s a very approachable, friendly place. It’s hard for me to imagine your DS would be intimidated after a visit.</p>

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<p>I think it depends on the child. Some children can take sudden transition at 18 some cann’t. If you know that your son will be able to handle it then let him go. Distance can be a cause of concern and should be looked into in my opinion.</p>

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<p>Re: whether a Dartmouth degree would be more helpful than a Rhodes one…</p>

<p>I can’t remember the fellow’s name, but a reputable researcher recently did a couple of studies which showed that an Ivy League education didn’t equate to higher lifetime earnings. However, being accepted by an Ivy League school did correlate with a small but statistically significant increase in lifetime earnings. The study basically concluded that the competency of the person mattered much more to one’s economic success than the prestige of a university’s name.</p>

<p>With my son (who’s now a junior in college), I told him to choose wherever he felt most comfortable and left it at that. He chose Hampshire over several more highly ranked options and has excelled there. He’s currently working as a research assistant for a full professor who has said, “I’ll be damned if the department won’t fully fund your Ph.D. as my grad assistant!” He probably wouldn’t have benefited that kind of attention at Duke (for example) which was one of his options.</p>

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<p>While I think there might need to be the push at least to visit Dartmouth, so that he can make a truly informed decision, remember that no matter what you think would be best for him academically or socially, the decision should ultimately be his and his alone (assuming that money really isn’t a problem). </p>

<p>Back when the dinosaurs roamed, I had narrowed my choice to two fine schools. I preferred one, my mother preferred the other (strongly). There was no ultimatum, like “you go to the school I want you to, or we won’t pay,” but I didn’t want to disappoint her since she was so excited about the school. I went there. I got a fine education, but really disliked it. It didn’t fit my personality, learning style, or give me the college experience I wanted. And I know that, over the years closer to when I was in school, I held it against my parents for “making” me go there.</p>

<p>Do you want that responsibility for your son if he doesn’t like it? Or do you want him to be able to say, “OK, this was my choice. Why did I choose it? What can I learn from the decision making process and from the decision I made?”</p>

<p>Remember that whatever choice he makes, your son is, by definition, leaving his comfort zone; every college student is. He’s going away from home for an extended period for the first time. He’ll be responsible for his own education, his own time management. He’ll be living with a bunch of kids he’s never met, perhaps sharing a room for the first time. Even if he’s shared a room before, it’s different sharing one with a stranger rather than a sibling. He’ll need to make new friends, new networks, new connections. He’ll be thinking, “What if I can’t cut it?” perhaps for the first time in his life. All of this is plenty scary and uncomfortable.</p>

<p>The difference between the South and New England? Unless the kid wants to experience it, it’s trivial.</p>

<p>Give him the information he needs (which probably includes a visit to each school), and let him decide.</p>

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<p>

I totally agree with this … and with the folks suggesting a visit to Dartmouth. If it were my kid the sales pitch would be include … you have 3 terrific options and you can’t really go wrong … I would like you to visit all 3 chioices for two reasons … so you really understand all 3 of your options … and so you never look back and wonder about the road not taken; if you do not check out one of these 3 schools in the future you may wonder “what if” however if you visit all 3 schools it will make your selection now much more solid.</p>

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<p>Dartmouth grads are usually very happy with their choice. It is really an ultimate college experience with the remote town creating a tight knit community. One girl I know said that the main green was the ‘village lawn’ for the town. She absolutely loved it and the “D” plan. I know older people who went there who are extremely successful. </p>

<p>Wash U, the few I know were a more mixed bag. One transferred out back to the home (costal town) cause she couldn’t get comfortable there. Another liked it a lot. Another was a married med school student who liked the town.</p>

<p>Don’t know anything about Rhodes.</p>

<p>Of course it comes down to what the kid feels is right for them. I’m a big fan of an away experience cause it is a really protected way to experience another part of the country. but to visit something that’s very different from what you know is a good idea if you can swing it.</p>

<p>And confidence shaken from not getting into even more top schools than this is foolish; no reflection on him, since these acceptances do show he is qualified for top schools, it is just a numbers game and a class mix issue, nothing to take personally. They would have admitted him if they had room, but they have to toss out 9 good candidates for each one they take.</p>

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<p>Sounds like he’s already decided he doesn’t want to go to Dartmouth (or perhaps more precisely – he’d rather go somewhere else).</p>

<p>I would drop it.</p>

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<p>I’d leave the prestige factor aside, but rather focus on the fear of the unknown. Your son may very well wish to settle locally, and Rhodes degree would be fine. I suspect many of us on CC are encouraging a visit to Dartmouth not because of its status, but because we’ve never known a grad from there who didn’t rave about his/her experience. Truly, I’ve met grads of all ages, and everyone has enjoyed the school and are active alumni.</p>

<p>I’d book a plane trip ASAP</p>

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<p>I made my son visit his two safety’s accepted students days as well as the two top choices, because I felt that their presentations would help put the bigger name schools in context. When you see that ___ school offers ___, it makes you realize that you should see if you other choices offer it too.</p>

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<p>The rule in our house was that our kids had to visit schools that DH & I thought might be suitable for them, but they DID NOT have to apply, nor obviously attend, anywhere that wasn’t their choice. Once they understood that THEY had the final say, they didn’t have a problem just looking at schools we chose, knowing they would never be pressured to attend if they didn’t want to.</p>

<p>Go look at Dartmouth.</p>

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<p>There is lots of wisdom here including having students visit all of their choices so they can make the most informed decision. I know that wouldn’t be feasible with students who have, for instance, a dozen acceptances, but it certainly is feasible here. It’s also a good way to have a student step out of their comfort zone in a nonthreatening way.</p>

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<p>

This isn’t true for me. I do know people who weren’t thrilled with Dartmouth, and just like any other school, Dartmouth has its share of students transferring out. I would make the same suggestion about visiting Dartmouth as I would if it were UMass or Podunk U - a student cannot make a fully informed opinion without all the information at his disposal. A visit gives that information.</p>

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<p>Ironically, I think the students with the most trepidation going into a big challenging colllege end up transitioning better sometimes than the very confident ones. It’s very hard to predict who will blossom and grow with the experience and who will get freaked. High school experience is really no predictor. Sometimes the super social success through high school finds themselves suddenly very thrown by the larger, more competitive scene at college. </p>

<p>I think that the fact that your child is thinking these issues through carefully and has a measure of humility about himself right now bodes well for him wherever he goes.</p>