Absolutely top-notch for grad school. Overrated for undergrad.
@ucbalumnus It is a new option for freshman admissions this fall, and is just for Berkeley, not for the other UCs. http://admissions.berkeley.edu/freshmanpolicy
Also, 0-2 letters; 3rd letter not allowed.
“Students without a letter will not be at a disadvantage, but we do highly encourage students to use this opportunity”
If you can get high GPA, say 3.5+, you will be as least as highly regarded as top private graduates. In my department’s graduate admission, UCB graduates are definitely favored over say graduates of similar grades from Emory level privates.
@curiouscaleb Perhaps you should visit. Sit in a few classes, talk to students, tour the facilities, eat on campus. See if the resources are adequate for such a large body of students.
The value seems lacking to me as an OOS, especially if you settle in the Midwest, South or Northeast.
OK, it’s an enrollment cap, but it will still lead to more than 20% OOS in the freshman class.
@ucbalumnus Wanting to major in CS, applied math, or econ.
For those majors UCB beats lots of private schools. It’s just crowded particularly for CS. Also TAs get to teach a class from what I’ve heard. It doesn’t happen at other UC.
http://www.dailycal.org/2013/09/02/increased-cs-course-demand-leads-to-overflowing-auditorium/
CS may be done as either EECS in the College of Engineering or CS in the College of Letters and Science (same selection of CS courses, but different other requirements). EECS is more selective for frosh admission than L&S, but L&S students must meet a minimum prerequisite GPA (currently 3.3) to declare the L&S CS major. CS at Berkeley is rigorous and well respected, plus has a location advantage for recruiting (a characteristic shared with Stanford), but is huge, despite the enrollment limits. Aspiring L&S CS majors are so numerous that the first CS course for CS majors has over 1,000 students (though some other schools also have huge enrollments in their first CS courses for CS majors, like over 700 at Stanford and Harvard).
Economics at Berkeley offers different options with high math (i.e. math more advanced than single variable calculus) versus moderate math (single variable calculus) in the intermediate economics and econometrics courses. Students aspiring to PhD study in economics are advised to take the high math versions and additional advanced math and statistics courses (e.g. real analysis, proof-based linear algebra, calculus-based probability theory). The major is large, and L&S students must get a 3.0 GPA in the prerequisites to enter the major. If math-intensity of the economics major is important, check the other schools on your list for what math prerequisites their intermediate economics and econometrics courses require – some have high math (e.g. MIT, Stanford), some have moderate math (e.g. Cornell), and some have an option between the two (e.g. Harvard).
Applied math at Berkeley does not require anything more than C grades in the prerequisites to enter the major, although the math department does state that only those who got a B- or higher in the sophomore level math prerequisites are recommended to enter the major, due to the increased rigor of upper division math courses. Lower division math courses tend to be large (and shared by students in many majors), but most upper division math courses tend to be small.
In all of these majors (at any school with a decent major in such, unless you do a moderate or less math economics major), there will be some courses where you will do mathematical proofs. Proofs in geometry may have been the closest thing to a taste of such that you may have seen in high school.
At giant research institutions, your education is of your own making. That’s true of Harvard, of UCB, and of state schools. Obviously UCB is “good” and people talking about research that shows that people from small colleges fare better in all aspects of their professional life may be full of it. However. If you don’t plan on being self-sufficient and really pursuing the fields and education you want, you will get only a decent record. Smaller schools sometimes do a lot of hand holding. For example, at Rose Hulman, they put tutors right in the dorms and set up study groups for you. It’s very… structured. I think that UCB is a great school and a student will do as well as they want there.
CAL as it relates to CS, is very strong–period. Outside of Stanford it has a score of many organic and tangible ties to the tech industry. One will not go lacking for appreciable employment opportunities in the tech sector coming out of CAL CS…
Article about out of state admissions at the UC’s.
http://www.sfgate.com/education/article/UC-admits-record-number-of-out-of-state-freshmen-6363564.php
Simba, instead of posting an article with a bunch of spin, UC posts the admission numbers on the UC website. Look at the true figures and draw your own conclusions.
LACs do offer smaller classes. I think it’s safe to say they are able to offer higher levels of student-faculty engagement in general. I wouldn’t automatically characterize this as “hand-holding”, because it may in fact mean that LAC students are being challenged more, in some respects, than students who spend a high percentage of their class time (for at least the first 2 years) in large lectures.
Cal-Berkeley is the top public school by reputation. I think that Cal’s rep is fairly earned when you consider all the Nobel laureates teaching and/or conducting research on campus, all of the top-10 and -25 programs, etc.
From a “quality of teaching” perspective, Cal is right there with the Ivies, Stanford, MIT, Chicago, Duke and Northwestern. (And Caltech, though Caltech seems so specialized that it seems odd to group it with those other elite - but far more balanced - schools.)
But you will need to be disciplined: nobody is going to care if you skip your large 100- and 200-level lectures. And if you are running late for an exam, they are not going to wait for you to get there.
Sounds harsh, but it’s an introduction to real life.
Make it to your classes, study hard, and you’ll get as good of an education at Cal (or other top publics) as you would anywhere else.
LACs may offer small environment but maybe less choices of courses for CS. Tradeoffs as one has to make as always in college as in life.
UCBChemEGrad, I’m not sure what your complaint is about? The SFGate article pretty much reported the same numbers your link did.
I think OOS yield is low, due to cost and lack of FA, which while somewhat known by some, still comes as a shock to many when they get their offers. 24K surcharge cross the board, regardless of FA needs …
For an instate CA resident, the only competition for Berkeley is likely UCLA … or maybe for some, a private school with big FA. The $35K does not buy you much retail OOS or in the private schools, you would have to get major FA, and with cost of living and salaries higher in CA … harder …
So acceptances may still not yield thousands of attendees, someone can figure it out by comparing numbers on
http://admissions.berkeley.edu/studentprofile and
http://opa.berkeley.edu/sites/default/files/UndergraduateProfile.pdf
If money is not an object, Berkeley is still an excellent school and still actually possible to get in, so it can be a good option to only hitting the other top 19 schools many who have such low yields and talented applicant pools that … ordinary mortals need not apply. And while Berkeley has some issues, it is not Baltimore …
Go with fit, man, go with fit.
College … StickerPrice … AverageN-BAid … NetCost
Berkeley $29,640 $6,541 $23,099
Princeton $59,165 $37,183 $21,982
Stanford $59,888 $40,460 $19,428
Williams $61,870 $42,565 $19,305
Pomona $61,432 $43,486 $17,946
Harvard $59,607 $41,975 $17,632
Amherst $62,206 $45,604 $16,602
Yale $60,850 $44,268 $16,582