<p>So, after graduating from UChiacago with a bachelor's degree---where do Chicago kids tend to go to grad school? (HYS law? princeton grad? etc) </p>
<p>And how is CAPS really? And the UChicago scholarship office in terms of Truman scholarships and Marshall etc?</p>
<p>The answer to your question is going to depend on the student and the academic discipline, as well as the desire to go to graduate school. </p>
<p>To really answer the question of Chicago's "boost" to graduate school admissions, we'd have to set up some kind of experiment with a test group and a control group, and we would have to minimize variables. Ideally, you would take a high school senior interested in going to law school, send them to the University of Chicago, see if they got into Harvard Law or whatever, and then send them back in time to the same emotional/intellectual place they were in as high school seniors, send them to another comparable elite.... and then send them back in time again, to a state school......</p>
<p>But the shortcut answer is that Chicago offers many tools to help students realize their personal/professional/academic goals.</p>
<p>CAPS (Career Advising) is good, provided that you do not expect to go in there with a resume and come out with a prestigious summer internship. They help connect you to many university resources and can suggest ways to pump yourself up, but they cannot give you a job. That's your responsibility. I have been pleased with my experiences with two career counselors at CAPS, for giving good life and good career advice.</p>
<p>
[quote]
To really answer the question of Chicago's "boost" to graduate school admissions, we'd have to set up some kind of experiment with a test group and a control group, and we would have to minimize variables. Ideally, you would take a high school senior interested in going to law school, send them to the University of Chicago, see if they got into Harvard Law or whatever, and then send them back in time to the same emotional/intellectual place they were in as high school seniors, send them to another comparable elite.... and then send them back in time again, to a state school......
[/quote]
:eek:</p>
<p>Please, please tell us that you're a social science major and you've taken all your research and statistics courses already. It would go a long way towards helping people to see that U of C students are just like the rest of us. :)</p>
<p>Paragonlife - the general consensus is that Chicago is superb at business school placement and placement in doctoral programs, and U of C is getting much better at med and law placement. We're still waiting for the most recent law placement stats to be posted on this discussion forum, but I'd assume for med and law, Chicago is comparable to placement from a Penn or Cornell. </p>
<p>For business and phd programs, Chicago is absolutely superb, and comparable in placement to any school anywhere. In fact, for phd placement, it may very well be amongst the top 4-5 schools in the nation for this.</p>
<p>My son will be attending Chicago (yey!!!). He is very much into a Wall Street career upon graduation. He is very motivated to do whatever is needed to get him prepared for the best possible entry point in four years. (It's good to know that U Chicago grads are well positioned for business school, but that's after a few years of work experience). </p>
<p>What should he be already thinking about from the day 1 he settles in his dorm? What should he be doing to maximize his chance for a great internship after the first year, then second, etc. or, even an internship during the year, if that's possible. In my family, we already agreed that we will not encourage him to work on campus at $7.5/hour - we would rather see him work for free in a field related to his intended profession that will position him better for the entry into the Wall Street he dreams about. I believe that's much better investment.</p>
<p>I know my son will take his own initiative since he is really motivated, but it does not hurt that I have a shadow knowledge/understanding of what goes on so that if appropriate I can make a minimal necessary intervention in a least intrusive manner.</p>
<p>For law, if you keep your GPA up in the top 10% at UChicago or so (3.8+) and do well on the LSAT, you are in good shape for admission to pretty much any law school, barring some remarkable blemish on your application. It may a bit harder to earn a 3.8 at UChicago than some places, but that does mean that admissions officers at law schools can take high grades seriously.</p>
<p>I think that because business and PhD programs take a larger share of the top students than at some peer schools, the quantity of UChicago students going to HYS law school is a bit lower than some peers. But anyone who takes care of business on the LSAT and attends UChicago will have plenty of law school options. </p>
<p>Another thing to keep in mind is that the classes at top law schools are small, in some cases very small (i.e. 175 at Yale and Stanford). So you have to have a really stellar application, regardless of where you attend college. I would say UChicago is definitely an asset on your application if you have the GPA and LSAT (i.e. admissions counselors are going to be pretty confident that a 3.8 from Chicago indicates a truly outstanding student).</p>
<p>Maroon8 -I'd go as far as to say around a 3.7 gets you in the game for top3 lawschools from Chicago. Again, at this point, the LSAT really becomes the key factor. In the past, Chicago students too often don't study as diligently as needed for this test. As Chicago students have gotten to be more "traditional" (in the sense that they all realize the importance of these standardized tests), I'm assuming the avg. LSAT at Chicago has been increasing. </p>
<p>Really, from any top college, it's not performance at the school but the LSAT score that can really determine the success of an application. Going to Chicago is only a boost. If you end up with a 165 on the LSAT though, you can't play ball at the very top schools.</p>
<p>how about those who want to join Wall Street right after graduating and before applying to top business school, are grades also extremely important?</p>
<p>See my pre-law thread for your answer, science fiction ;-).</p>
<p>If you are doing the UChicago to finance / consulting to top business school route, the GPA demands are significantly less in all regards. </p>
<p>First, the number of spaces across the full time and non-executive part time programs at the top 15 or so MBA programs is huge. Above a 3.25, presuming your work experience is remotely reputable, i.e. any type of white collar, fortune 500 gig, after 2-5 years with an acceptable GMAT score you will get into one of them. Obviously, the higher you go up the prestige chain, the more demanding its gets. Harvard, Stanford, and Wharton require more like a 3.5 from Chicago and sexier WE. But at the end of the day, the whole process is nowhere near as competitive as law or medical school. It is doubly nice that Chicago loves to pick up its own undergraduates for spots at Booth (a school that legitimately lays claim - with a handful of others - to being the very best in the field), offering one of the few early admission programs for undergraduates that is well worth it professionally. </p>
<p>Second, for pre-MBA recruiting pretty much any organization worth its salt in consulting and finance comes to UChicago. Further, most come with recruiting quotas, and given that so many students in graduating classes are NOT looking to enter these fields, any clean cut, kiss a$$, motivated candidate gets a definite leg up. The sometimes unreasonable GPA expectations tend to get quickly tempered by the need of recruiters not to come back empty handed to their bosses (although recruiters are often Chicago alumni, so this makes things easier). One way CAPS makes sure they are up to speed on this is by giving them a resume book to review in advance of interviews (students submit through an online system), where any employer who thinks they can cherry pick only the 3.8+ crowd quickly realizes that is not going to happen unless they are Google or Goldman Sachs. On the whole, I would say most bulge bracket banking entities, i.e. well known, front page of the WSJ firms, are going to walk away with an analyst class from Chicago that on average has about a 3.3+, one or more extracurricular activities of note, and at least one internship <em>relevant</em> to the job they are seeking. This is not terribly hard to achieve if you are moderately motivated. And besides, if you cannot meet these requirements, you are just not going to thrive it in a detailed oriented but ultimately quick turnaround, 60-80 hour a week environment anyways. </p>
<p>In short, I would say Chicago does extremely well in placing students who actually want these roles – a point lost on those that only examine raw analyst class numbers (e.g. ZOMG – so many people from teh Dartmouth get bankingz!?!)</p>
<p>Let me state again, in ed speek, grad school does not mean law, med or biz school. Those are referred to as "Professional School".</p>
<p>UofC grads reputedly do as well as grads from anywhere else in Grad School admissions.</p>
<p>There is a raging argument w/r/t whether UofC grads do as well in Professional School admisisons, which seem to be more numbers driven. </p>
<p>Truth is, though, that the key to admissions to any of these lies with the individual. Same with internships and job placement. Chicago grads that learn the ropes, and use them, in their target areas do fine. Let me give you some examples of the ropes, and maybe others will give other examples (and in the process get away from these useless discussions regarding whether kids from school X are helped or handicapped...)</p>
<ul>
<li><p>For grad school, faculty connections are a key factor that separates out the "stars" from the others. For example, if you "bond" with a professor, perhaps through a research project, if that prof goes to bat for you (calls a colleague at superstar U to say this grad student applying is the best of the lot, for example), that will make a huge difference. You must have the grades and scores, of course, but you may need that boost for top programs, and a good stipend.</p></li>
<li><p>for the job world, see above, and add family/social connections. Why are contacts so important? It reduces risk. If someone I know recommends someone to me, my friend is putting his/her reputation on the line, and I know they won't do that lightly. It tells me far more than any resume can. </p></li>
<li><p>biz school? More complex. Top schools can be pretty numbers driven, but some also look carefully at job experience. Maybe some others with more recent knowledge can expand on this. </p></li>
<li><p>law, med school? dunno. I am too far removed. maybe others can comment on how, and if, non test score, non gpa issues enter the picture.</p></li>
</ul>
<p>
[quote]
- For grad school, faculty connections are a key factor that separates out the "stars" from the others. For example, if you "bond" with a professor, perhaps through a research project, if that prof goes to bat for you (calls a colleague at superstar U to say this grad student applying is the best of the lot, for example), that will make a huge difference. You must have the grades and scores, of course, but you may need that boost for top programs, and a good stipend.
[/quote]
newmassdad is quite correct about this. Another plus is meeting people at conferences and such. Social networking can be as important as course work. I believe Robert Sternberg once wrote that analytical intelligence helped one get into college, creative intelligence made one a good grad student candidate, and practical intelligence (involving working with people) got one a job or great grad placement.</p>
<p>Thanks for the post regarding faculty for grad school. I am weighing the faculty on IR in Chicago and another school I'm considering. How much does GPA matter for grad school?
And for current UChicago, how hard is it to get a 3.5+ GPA? (As in I can still do other things, ECs, etc. and still get a 3.5). I had a current student tell me the average GPA for econ= 3.0, math=3.2, and humanities= 3.4. Sounds harsh.</p>
<p>PGL,</p>
<p>Last year, 69% of the June graduating class had a GPA of 3.25 or greater. How do I know? Because I counted from the program during that long reading of the names. My D was among the very last few (about 10th or 15 th from the end), so I had lots of time. </p>
<p>You can do your own math from there, and hopefully conclude that the current student with whom you spoke must hang out in slacker circles. </p>
<p>You can also conclude that 3.5+ takes some work but is far from impossible.</p>
<p>The average GPA overall is about 3.35. Different majors have substantially different ranges. You can get some idea by looking at what is required for honors in a department. Some have benchmarks as low as 3.0, some as high as 3.6. Grades at Chicago are not terribly deflated, and 3.5 or 3.6 is not that uncommon. The general feeling among most students I knew is that a B+ is very doable in just about any class with a reasonable amount of effort, and an A- is also fairly realistic unless you are taking an advanced class in a field you are unfamiliar with. It's pretty hard to get an A without really mastering the content and taking a step further, but it's also pretty hard to get a C outside of the majors with curved exams. The 3.35 average GPA, which is slightly above a B+ seems to bear that out. The one big difference between Chicago and some peers in the 3.8+ range, which is pretty tough to crack (8% or so). You'll likely have a class or two where you spend every effort of your being and end up with a B+. But you'll also probably have a class or two where you get pleasantly surprised.</p>
<p>The university has put forth quite an effort in the big time scholarship effort in recent years, in terms of pro-actively identifying strong candidates and encouraging them to apply. They had another Truman Scholar this year, and have had as many as three in a single year in the past few years (each university can nominate four -- so landing three winners in one year is pretty notable). They also had a Marshall Scholar this year. At least with the Truman, they seem to pretty thoroughly prepare the finalists that advance from the university (you have to put together a full proposal for the advising staff at Chicago, they conduct simulated interviews, etc. to pick the university's finalists, and then further groom them for the actual national process). (I don't know much about the other processes). It seems like they have at least one award winner in each of the three more famous scholarship (Rhodes, Marshall, Truman) most years.</p>