How good it has to be to become a hook

Parents Forum
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<p>Dad, none of us can tell you how your son’s college apps will turn out. You could continue to invest in a chess coach, he could attain phenomenal success on the chess circuit, and the day the Adcom reads his application and essay about chess at Stanford or Harvard might be the day the Adcom read 15 other essays about chess- one of them written by a kid who was raised by a single parent in a homeless shelter. That kid in- your kid out- nobody’s fault, it’s just the way it goes. Or the kid could be living with CP or be deaf and blind, or his dad is Bono. People magazine ran a feature about a kid at MIT majoring in Aero/Astro whose mom had resorted to collecting cans and bottles to pay for food. Quite a compelling life’s story- you just don’t know who else is in the application pool with your kid’s “hook”, and compared to other kids, even your kids stellar hook might fall short of the mark.</p>

<p>The best way to maximize your chances at need based aid is to be poor- low income and no assets, so go for it. The best way to maximize your relationship with your son is to let his interests and goals lead the way, with you providing logistical support (transportation, finances, etc.) if and when he needs it. There are plenty of Ivy grads with miserable family relationships and terrible professional lives, and there are plenty of grads of “nowhere state college” who have become hugely succesful with enriching family lives and loving relatives. If you support your son in any way you can without making him feel like a loser because he’s not his sister, you are likely to have a better outcome.</p>

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<p>blossom

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<p>Don’t need to go for it, we are there now. The problem is that, our experiences tell us, most of need based aid contains loans. </p>

<p>Also got your point about 15 other essay about chess - that chess is not unique enough. Will talk to DW to set out to collect cans and bottles on weekends to pay for DS’s chess coach. Hope that will make it a little “hookable”.</p>

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<p>Dad- if you were really low income and limited assets you would find the top schools very generous. It is often hard to look around and realize that others are living paycheck to paycheck and have to decide between groceries and taking your child to the dentist that week.</p>

<p>Try some perspective. If you own a house you are not “limited assets”- even if you feel you are. There is an outstanding HS kid (maybe in your town) living in a housing project- that’s low income/low assets. Feel free to move in when you qualify.</p>

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<p>Dad II: There are cash-prizes at non-scholastic chess tournaments. :)</p>

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<p>“The best way to maximize your chances at need based aid is to be poor- low income and no assets, so go for it.” </p>

<p>"Don’t need to go for it, we are there now. "</p>

<p>Dad II, you’ve posted that your income is $10,000 / month which is $120,000 / year. I recognize you have a dd at a very expensive college, though you’ve also said that she got great FA. Please don’t call yourself poor and feel sorry for yourself.</p>

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<p>DreamMom, I got that. DS won some books from his first competition.</p>

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<p>"Don’t need to go for it, we are there now. The problem is that, our experiences tell us, most of need based aid contains loans. "</p>

<p>Life really sucks, doesn’t it? It’s unfortunate that there are no guarantees that your children will get into top 20 schools AND that the schools will float them merit money, and that no matter how you try, there’s a large part that is simply luck of the draw as to who gets in and who doesn’t. Ah well, that’s the game called life. </p>

<p>Instead of angling to find your kid a hook, why not let <em>him</em> develop his own interests and see where that takes him? What are you so afraid of?</p>

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<p>Dad II,</p>

<p>I’d like to add my 2 cents about your son’s chess and the notion of a “hook”. From my experience, I would like to say that any activity that your son enjoys, pursues and excels at, may be a plus during the college application process. But, does that mean he should take his chess to the next level in the hopes of impressing the adcoms?</p>

<p>My son, who is an incoming freshman at one of the Ivy’s, became a professional (computer) strategy game player at the age of 15. He was a paid member of a gaming team, earned a monthly salary to compete in games, played in tournaments and won cash prizes. Eventually, he became the #1 ranked player in the US for his game and represented the US at an international tournament. He also created a website and online business, in which he gave lessons to people learning how to play the game.</p>

<p>Was my son’s gaming perceived as a “hook” when he applied to colleges? Many people on this board will tell you that his gaming was a waste of time! But, clearly his gaming set him apart from other applicants; it showed he had the passion, drive and initiative to take an activity to the “next” level. He received feedback from college adcoms who praised his achievements. And, he was able to write supplemental essays explaining how his gaming sparked his interest in business (having been sponsored by businesses himself). In other words, because of his gaming experiences, he had a real story to tell, with real examples.</p>

<p>But, my son did not set out to be a professional game player in the hopes that he would impress the college adcoms. Rather, he was driven by the competition, travel and of course, the prizes (cash and otherwise). However, he certainly won’t deny that his newspaper articles, website interviews and press coverage helped supplement his college application (keep in mind that he was also an A+ student, tons of AP classes, varisty sport, etc). </p>

<p>So, my advice is if your son has the passion to take chess to the next level, he should be encouraged do so. But only if it’s something he wants to pursue. If the college adcom’s are impressed- that’s an added bonus. And, if nothing else, he could leave for college with a nicely padded bank account. In fact, I’ve tried convincing my son to teach me how to play his game before he leaves, with the hopes that I, too, may earn some extra spending money :-)</p>

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<p>Don’t need to go for it, we are there now. The problem is that, our experiences tell us, most of need based aid contains loans. >></p>

<p>For the umpteenth time Dad II…your $10,000 MONTH income does not make you low income, or poor. Please can’t you let that one go.</p>

<p>And on top of that your college expenses for your daughter are very very small. </p>

<p>You are NOT poor, you are NOT low income, and at this point you are not paying much for a child to attend college. To be honest, you are very fortunate.</p>

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<p>I do hope that you are aware that your two children are two unique individuals and no two college admissions are similar and methods guaranteed. What works for one person may not succeed for another, even though their stats and ECs are similar.</p>

<p>Please do not put pressure on your son to follow his sister’s footsteps. It can ruin the siblings’ relationships in the future.</p>

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<p>The problem with going for a “hook” is that it is a moving target. (Picture that hook moving away as the hungry fish approaches ) You don’t know which schools want which hooks, and which ones your kid is going to want. My oldest had a strong hook–recruited athlete. As a national competitor, he was certainly wanted by colleges, and there were those out there that wanted him. But like going to the old dance, the ones that want you are not necessarily the ones you want. Also, you never know if the proposal is going to come, regardless of the courtship intensity. It was a tough go, and in his case, we had access and knowledge of things like how important the sport was to the colleges involved, the personalities, the other athletes in the pool. With many of the other hooks, it is a lot more ambiguous. After the fact, you can point to the hook and say it got him into this school or other, but during the process, you are generally in the dark.</p>

<p>My third one was a championship level chess player who has played and even beat current grandmasters, including the very young man who is in our area and now considered a top dog in the field. He did not continue in high school as other things caught his interest, and seeing the level of time and commitment chess requires in order for him to take the next steps, I did not even make a murmur about the matter. He is an excellent chess player who enjoys the sport but does not want to spend that much time on it. How much mileage he could have gotten out of in terms of college never came into question. Friends of us have a daughter who is a top player and they are hoping that this will be a factor for a Stanford bid next year. We’ll see. That she is female in this sport may help as well. </p>

<p>As for the “Looking For Bobby Fisher” scene, I’ve lived that one in the sense that much of the filming and experiences in that movie could have and were probably done on site. Aint quite like that.</p>

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<p>PG, I see that you finally understood what I have been saying after reading my PM. </p>

<p>One thing I learnt from CC is that one must have something to set him/her apart from the others. That GPA or test scores are not the mean to stand out. As a parent, I take it as my duty to guide my child from the experiences I have.</p>

<p>After the first 9 weeks of next semester, I will have a comprehensive talk with his GC and teachers. I would like to know what do they see from DS. I will work with him to continue the good ones.</p>

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<p>Of course, the rest of us can’t know what you wrote to PG ,but we mostly get that she has long understood what you have been saying, and I can’t imagine, judging from her last post, that your PM changed any apprehension on her part of what you mean. Not that anyone’s opinion here will change anything…</p>

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<p>“PG, I see that you finally understood what I have been saying after reading my PM.”</p>

<p>No, I don’t. The median income and house prices in your particular area that you shared with me are irrelevant. If you have an income of $10,000 / month (or thereabouts), you are not “poor,” and it is duplicitous and misleading to present yourself as such. </p>

<p>“One thing I learnt from CC is that one must have something to set him/her apart from the others. That GPA or test scores are not the mean to stand out. As a parent, I take it as my duty to guide my child from the experiences I have.”</p>

<p>Dad II, with all due respect, you mean well, but you’re still not getting it. You seem to think that “success” will be defined by you finding / creating some hook for your child. What people are telling you is … let your child find his own hook. Let him find what interests him, motivates him, sets him apart from the crowd. Please, please don’t steer him towards interests only because you think they will look good on an application to a school that impresses the neighbors.</p>

<p>Some unsolicited advice as well? I think you might be well advised to wipe clean the slate of how your daughter did. I fear that you are just going to compare him to her, he’s never going to measure up, you’re going to put pressure on him to apply to the same kind of university that she’s at, he’s not going to make it, and then he’s going to feel stupid. And whatever for? I’m sure he’s a bright kid; he may not be the superstar that she is / was, but THAT"S OK. Honest.</p>

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<p>“After the first 9 weeks of next semester, I will have a comprehensive talk with his GC and teachers. I would like to know what do they see from DS. I will work with him to continue the good ones.”</p>

<p>Aside from the normal parent-teacher types of conferences, there is little need for you to be talking to the teachers. It is your SON in school, not you. Presuming he’s doing well in school (and here’s a hint: a B is not the end of the world as you thought it was!), what are they going to tell you that’s going to change anything? Let your son figure out that what interests him is chemistry, or French, or the Civil War, or whatever.</p>

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<p>I can’t find it, but I do recall reading a story many years ago about a dirt-poor immigrant family where the parents did in fact collect cans and other recyclables from trash cans in order to save money to send their children to college. The parents were getting up at some ungodly hour in order to check the cans before the trash trucks came. If memory serves, at least some of the children went to Harvard. The kids had also done their part. </p>

<p>Saying that that was an amazing hook is almost insulting to the enormous effort and sacrifice that those kids and parents put in. The kids were fully aware of what their parents had done for them, and beyond grateful.</p>

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<p>When Mrs. DadII is out ■■■■■■■■ for recyclable cans & bottle, will DadII be sleeping in?</p>

<p>How about setting up a prom dress donation charity, like Blaire Hornstein? Apparently the dad did all the work, but his D claimed it as her project.</p>

<p>Leave your son to his own devices. That is if you want him to maintain any relationship with you after he is old enough to get out from under you influence & control.</p>

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<p>I am getting really annoyed that everytime I came to ask a question and I got into these arguements.</p>

<p>Some of you gave me really good examples of what your DD or DS did. I really appreciate that and I will digest the information and apply to our situation accordingly. </p>

<p>After all, it is my family and my children. You have your way and I have mine. Our DD got into some of the very best schools so we are not doing too badly. The connection between us and the GC/teachers has worked very well for us. It gave us some phases we don’t see from our children. It helps the educator know our children better. The most important part, I think, is that we show the educators that we care about our children’s education and growth. When we show that we care and willing to put in efforts, they care and help beyond the normal call of duty too. </p>

<p>I don’t think DS needs to have any type of “measuring up” because he is a very smart kid with high hopes. All I am doing is the same I did for my DD, gather information and provide guidance as any parent should be doing. If he takes them, fine. If he does not, there is not way for me to force him. </p>

<p>many of you also ask questions and seeks help on this forum. I will imagine that you feed what you learn to your children too. I just don’t get it why so much finger pointing to me all the time. At the end of the day, we all want to have the same thing - give the best to our children so they could be the best they could, right?</p>

<p>If everything should be left for our children to do themself, I ask you, then why are you here?</p>

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<p>By your reports, it seems clear that your D got into those great schools by doing what she loved, despite your continual disapproval. How many times did we hear that she was spending time doing the wrong activities, writing the wrong essays, having a bad attitude? (Who pulled out the power cord on her computer?)</p>

<p>Yet, now you take the credit.</p>

<p>You have great kids–smart, hardworking, conscientious–and fully capable of seeing what choices make sense to them in life. Manufacturing a hook will not help your S. Let him be (if only because your D did best when you did); he sounds–by your reports–like he’s doing just fine.</p>

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<p>“After all, it is my family and my children. You have your way and I have mine. Our DD got into some of the very best schools so we are not doing too badly.”</p>

<p>Does the end always justifies the means? Yes, your daughter hit the jackpot by going to Stanford. And what was the process like? Let’s see - a lot of pressure to apply to schools that had “names” as opposed to what might be a good fit for her interests. A lot of pressure over schools that would impress the relatives in the old country. A lot of angst over the perceived lack of value in an honors program at a state school, because it was a (gasp) state school. A lot of drama over activities that your dd wanted to do that you didn’t see as having value. A 34 ACT being “not good enough” and telling your dd that she needed to do better and study harder so you wouldn’t lose face. Pulling the power cord on a computer at the last minute when your dd was trying to write an essay because your temper was out of control. But hey, it’s all worth it because she got into Stanford. Is that the meaning of life, Dad II? What is more important to you, good relationships with your children, or that they don’t bring shame to you in their choice of college?</p>

<p>Let your son BE. Encourage his academics and EC’s, but don’t try to manufacture a hook for him. The constant angling of “how will it look to the schools?” is tiresome. Your daughter did well on her own merits. Let him do well on his own merits.</p>