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<p>That’s exactly everyone’s point. You don’t get it, and all the explanations in the world won’t make a difference if they haven’t by now. It’s obviously a culture difference.</p>
<p>Actually, I’m with DadII here - don’t understand why everyone is always lecturing him.</p>
<p>mammal, you need to go back and read DadII’s posts and responses by parents starting in 2007 to understand why. He is still asking for ways he can “manipulate” the admissions process, despite the hundreds of posts by parents telling him to relax and stop pushing- first his daughter and now his son. Now he sights his “success” with his D, as if he is the one who got into Stanford, and has seemingly forgotten how “Ivy” obsessed he was and crushed when she was not accepted at Harvard.</p>
<p>“manipulate”, I see bashing a poor immigrant is “in” today.</p>
<p>I don’t know how many times I have seen people here say that you must have a “hook”. So, I basically asked if playing chess causally is a possible a hook. All you need to do is to let me know yes or not, a couple of real examples will have been great. Some of you did and I really appreciate that. </p>
<p>Is asking your child take the SAT one more time considered “manipulate”? Is picking ACT over SAT “manipulate”? How many of you have done one thing or the other to help your child to get a better chance for a good school? What about taking a child to visit a school which is known for looking for students who show real “interest”? </p>
<p>I see DS may be lacking some EC to make him more competitive so I will encourage him to do more EC. How is that “manipulate”?</p>
<p>I had a talk with DD the other day, she told me she remembered that since she was 4 or 5 I have been encouraging her to do good in school so she could attend good university. When I was laid off and the family was in financial trouble, we cut a lot of thing but kept paying for the piano lessons. You guys made me laugh that as if DD were born as an 18 years old and suddenly she did every thing right. </p>
<p>I don’t tell you how to raise your child. Please don’t tell me how to raise mine. </p>
<p>At least I have been civil and polite.</p>
<p>“poor immigrant” ?? Someone who is highly educated and makes 120,000 a year?? Oh brother! Not all eyes will weep for you.</p>
<p>"I don’t know how many times I have seen people here say that you must have a “hook”.
That may help some to a lot of the time at the some of the absolute most competative colleges, but I have seen and read about too many examples of “hookless” great students who are accepted at top colleges, and they can’t explain why they got the nod and their friend, with better stats, grades, SAT’s didn’t. So there is NO HARD AND FAST RULE that you HAVE to have a hook. You are believing what you want to believe. What a student needs to is have their application accurately reflect who they are, what they have accomplished, what they are interested in, and what they can contribute to the college. In otherwords, it’s all about “fit”- for the student and the college. And a PARENT who tries to comes up with an EC so the student’s application “looks” better is trying to manipulate the system, if the EC is not STUDENT DRIVEN.</p>
<p>Dad II, I can see both sides here. I’ve got one kid who had a passion and ran with it. His younger brother, well I’d love to nudge him into a hook too. But it’s not likely to happen. His two main ECs violin and Science Olympiad are things that he enjoys, but he’s not accomplished enough for them to be hooks. There hasn’t been anything that obvious for a kid who likes history and is really good at Navy Field (computer game). OTOH maybe he’ll write a charming essay about his main summer activity which has been learning to cook with his friends. They’ve been making meals together once a week - doing everything from buying to cleaning up. He’s learned to make barbecue ribs, apple pie, brownies and yeast based cinnamon rolls from scratch so far. </p>
<p>We don’t always get the full story from your posts. You may have done more or less than we think. I do know that you care about your kids, and I’m pretty sure they are going to turn out fine.</p>
<p>I say, different strokes for different folks.</p>
<p>I don’t agree with many of Dad II’s ideas of how to prepare his kids to get into the most competitive universities at the cheapest cost. Dad II, I can assure you many kids of immigrant families are pushed into fancy schools, graduate with fancy degrees, live in a fancy houses, but they are very unhappy. Unhappy that they are pushed into certain professions that their immigrant parents think will guarantee the affluent lifestyles that they could not achieve themselves.More often than not, they may resent their parents sometime in the future when they find out they are not suited for being doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers.</p>
<p>On the other hand, there are posters here who are becoming mean spirited towards Dad II and they come back to this thread often with nothing to contribute except ad hominem attacks.</p>
<p>“Dad II, I can assure you many kids of immigrant families are pushed into fancy schools, graduate with fancy degrees, live in a fancy houses, but they are very unhappy. Unhappy that they are pushed into certain professions that their immigrant parents think will guarantee the affluent lifestyles that they could not achieve themselves.More often than not, they may resent their parents sometime in the future when they find out they are not suited for being doctors, lawyers, accountants, engineers.”</p>
<p>CBreeze, Dad II already knows that. In fact, he has described a (cousin, I think?) of his whose children are in that situation (the children are successful economically, H law grads, but do not have a good relationship with their father because he pushed them, and have urged Dad II not to push his children). I think Dad II is a very caring parent and knows in his heart what the right answer is, but he’s scared. He is very scared that his children won’t get economic success if they don’t attend “the right” colleges and he’s not quite used to the American system in which you can go to a no-name school but still do well if you have what it takes. Which is why the focus on the name-brand schools for dd, the open wondering about whether the state flagship was worth the money since it wasn’t elite, the concern about the daughter going into environmental science instead of a field that he perceived as more secure. His point of view is understandable given his background, but it reflects a scarcity mentality that just doesn’t need to be, here in the US. And that’s why many of us are urging him to put those old biases behind, that it’s not about gaming the system to slot kids into predetermined paths at only certain schools, but finding the best fit for the kid and his own interests / life.</p>
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<p>Really?? I haven’t noticed that. When I think of a “hook”, I think of something a student brings to the application process that is SO notable that he/she has the prospect of acceptance when otherwise they might NOT be accepted.</p>
<p>Having a passion and going with it is very different than a hook. And a passion is something the STUDENT needs to choose, not the parent. In my opinion, passion cannot be orchestrated. It has to be something that naturally develops out of an interest the student really has. </p>
<p>Students applying to college probably have stronger applications with some sort of EC that they have done with significant commitment. But truthfully we have no real way of knowing that.</p>
<p>I can tell you, my daughter left high school as a highly ranked state player of oboe, and English horn…and significant ECs involving her music. It didn’t help her a lick in the application or financial aid process. </p>
<p>My son also had significant music ECs, and is a music major. But the reality is that his audition is what got him into college, not his EC list. Of course, his passion for music gave him the skill necessary to DO a great audition (six times).</p>
<p>Dad II…let your SON find his way in this EC world. He sounds like a great kid with a LOT to offer. My guess is that he has some interests that HE would like to pursue. Let him make the choices…and forget about whether or how this will affect college admissions. It might, and it might not.</p>
<p>Thank you all. Let’s go back to the original discussion. I think some of you are not seeing the whole picture. DS is an asian boy which is among the most competitive group for admission to top universities. </p>
<p>I know we have had many heated discussion about the merit of “top” universities. My personal experience is that school name matters. Even in the summer job, DD is finding out that "I am going to xxxx " somehow validates the product she is selling. Hard working, personal charm, and good product make the sales but the name tag helps.</p>
<p>It is in our blood that education at the very best university is the best thing we could give to our children. Besides, from the fit point of view, school such as Stanford (the only top school I visited) has so much to offer. One gets the name recognition, very best education and peer interaction, all with a reasonable price tag. Why not? The increasing # of applicants to these top schools proves there many people all over the world thinks the same way as we do. </p>
<p>O.K. what do you do to make an asian boy stand out of 10,000 other asian male applicants? test score? GPA? academic awards? music? research? you name it and there is already ton of other students who are very good.</p>
<p>What I am trying to do is to expose new things to him. He makes the final decision if he is interested. IT HAS BEEN his choice from the beginning. </p>
<p>So there will be not confusion: - we think the top school is the best fit financially and academically; it is very difficult for any one to get in and especially so for an asian boy; we want to do everything we could to help; we came here to seek inputs about particular activities.</p>
<p>“DS is an asian boy which is among the most competitive group for admission to top universities.”</p>
<p>So look outside top universities, then. You seem to have bought into the myth that success comes only from following already well-worn paths into a select number of majors / professions at a select few schools. If you want to define success financially, for the sake of argument, go look at ANY nice suburb of any major city. The people who live there are not uniformly Harvard-Yale-Princeton-Stanford grads. The vast majority will have gone to their state flagship and done well for themselves. Look, I’ve worked with plenty of HYPS grads – and they work right alongside, next to and often for state-flagship grads. It doesn’t make the difference you think it does in America. </p>
<p>You really seem, at least to me, to be operating on a fear basis. “What if they don’t get into …”? Well, what if your son doesn’t? What if he doesn’t get into any of the top 20 universities in this country? Does that mean he’s doomed to flipping burgers? Of course not. </p>
<p>“It is in our blood that education at the very best university is the best thing we could give to our children. Besides, from the fit point of view, school such as Stanford (the only top school I visited) has so much to offer. One gets the name recognition, very best education and peer interaction, all with a reasonable price tag. Why not? The increasing # of applicants to these top schools proves there many people all over the world thinks the same way as we do.”</p>
<p>That just means that people chase what they perceive as prestige. The <em>truly</em> prestigious things in life aren’t the ones that EVERYBODY knows. They are the ones that the select few know. Why are you defining quality by what the masses do or aspire to?</p>
<p>Take out the recognition – MANY universities offer excellent opportunities and peer interaction. You can’t seriously think you’re going to get #2 in at Stanford, do you? </p>
<p>“O.K. what do you do to make an asian boy stand out of 10,000 other asian male applicants? test score? GPA? academic awards? music? research? you name it and there is already ton of other students who are very good.”</p>
<p>By showing who he is, his character and personality. Maybe he loves roller coasters and writes a really cool essay about them. Maybe he teaches old people to swim. Maybe he has cooked every recipe in a certain cookbook. Maybe he writes original film scores for a friend who makes films. I don’t know. But the point is, it’s not orchestrated, it’s organic.</p>
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Are Asian boys really at a disagvantage??</p>
<p>No. It only SEEMS that way because so many Asian parents are controlling every move their kids make. It is not being Asian that might keep a boy out of contention for a top school. It is the packaged & restrictive upbringing that so many of them present to admissions. And the pervasive attitude among so many Asian families that stats rule, despite the repeated efforts by colleges to dispel this myth.</p>
<p>Feel free to continue nagging & controling your son, though. I really am doubting your ability to do otherwise.</p>
<p>“Really?? I haven’t noticed that. When I think of a “hook”, I think of something a student brings to the application process that is SO notable that he/she has the prospect of acceptance when otherwise they might NOT be accepted.”</p>
<p>Frankly, a hook is something like “the new science building is named after my grandparents, who donated it.” </p>
<p>Look, unless your kid is curing cancer, winning the Nobel Prize, or competing in the Olympics, ALL the things that a “smart” kid does are commonplace WITHIN THE WORLD of people who apply to top 20 universities. So change the game. It’s not about the 2400 vs the 2350. It’s not about the 4.5 weighted vs the 4.4 weighted. It’s not about whether you were rated first or second in your state on the French horn. It’s about personality and letting your own personality and interests shine through.</p>
<p>“DS is an asian boy which is among the most competitive group for admission to top universities.”</p>
<p>Dad II: try being a white male. Now THAT is the most competitive…</p>
<p>“O.K. what do you do to make an asian boy stand out of 10,000 other asian male applicants?”</p>
<p>Let him be the brilliant… chess playing… asian skater dude, alternative, indie.</p>
<p>NOW that would be a hook.</p>
<p>Actually, these days being a white female might be the most competitive.</p>
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<p>Team sports, charity work.</p>
<p>owlice, depends on your major. Most of my friends that are white and female and applied for engineering got lucrative offers from various schools without any kind of “hook” or stand out stats. They wanted the female blood. Not that I am complaining. A few more girls in engineering classes can’t hurt! lol</p>
<p>“O.K. what do you do to make an asian boy stand out of 10,000 other asian male applicants?”</p>
<p>Be unlike many other Asian parents: Let him follow his own interests and talents even if those lie in the arts, humanities, community service or sports like football, basketball or ice hockey.</p>
<p>bandnerd, point taken re: engineering. Overall, however, white female is the toughest sell right now. <a href=“http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/23/opinion/23britz.html[/url]”>http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/23/opinion/23britz.html</a></p>