<p>just curious…how do most students do in their classes?? do they have good GPAs??</p>
<p>Although the new grading regulation limit the number of A’s in the DEPARTMENT to 35%, it works out that there are 25%-40% A’s in any given course. So at worst, 1/4 people will get A’s in any given course (i am not sure about writing and freshman seminars tho considering they are not departments and their courses are not hosted by any given dept.). Considering that (and no disrespect intended) there are going to be athletes and legacies in most classes, it means that an A is really not tough to get. This is not true however for PHY and MAT courses which are hard in general. </p>
<p>From anecdotal evidence, after first semester 3.6-3.7 GPA was the cut off for 1st quintile.
(fyi, I am an '08er)</p>
<p>well, thats 35% As and A-s together. So in your average course you’re probably looking at closer to 20% of students getting A/A+s (which GPA-wise are the same thing). Also, because of the 35% departmental thing, it looks like departments are gonna be a bit more stringent with their large intro courses so they can give the more more realistic levels of 45-50% of A range grades to students in upper level courses. For comparison, between 45% and 55% of grades given out at every other ivy, stanford, and mit are in the A range.</p>
<p>So getting a solid A is not that easy at princeton - it pretty much means u have to perform in the top quintile of your course. And don’t forget, this is princeton. If you got into princeton because your major stength was being smart, then you’ll certainly get As in the areas you’re good at, especially if you take easier classes. It’s just that unless you’re really intelligent, a good test taker, and hard working, you’ll probably have some Bs mixed in as well. This isnt like high school where you have tests throughout the year. Have a bad day on the final and your A can easily become a B. Grade deflation just makes it that much easier to see your grade fall. </p>
<p>It’s certainly not impossible or anything to get As. But most people who come to princeton just feel that they’re doing badly if they’re not getting a 4.0. Getting a 4.0 for even a semester pre-grade-deflation was hard. Now, unless you take a joke schedule or are just that smart at everything, its extremely difficult.</p>
<p>In general, I’d say that if you arent horrible at something and work reasonably well at it, a B+ is pretty much always achievable (unless its something like advanced math or physics, which tends to reflect ability more than work). In any class, except for maybe higher level math and hard science classes, you’re going to have the bottom third of students who really don’t work that hard. They’ll get the Cs and low Bs, so if you work reasonably hard, then you’ll never have to worry about that. The major difference between high school and princeton, though, is that unless you’re especially smart, you won’t be able to hardly work in a class and get an A as was in the case in the majority of high school classes. </p>
<p>As for writing seminars, they are by far the most grade deflated of courses you’ll find. The writing program strongly recommends that the professors do not give out As and severely limit even A-s. To get an A, you either have to be among the very very best writers at princeton or you have to have a prof who doesnt go by the rules. From what i’ve heard, in a class of 12 or so students, 1 or at max 2 people may get A-s. Most people get something in the B range. Writing seminars are hell even for humanities majors. </p>
<p>And as for freshman seminars, since they don’t fall under a specific department, they are as grade inflated as the prof allows for. In my frosh seminar, you had to not turn in work to not get an A. I’ve heard about people having some fairly difficult frosh seminars though, so it really depends on the prof.</p>
<p>except MAT and PHY, huh?.. hurray for me…</p>
<p>Akx’s comments are similar to what I’ve heard from other students. Just to add a few things: my d was proud to get an A in frosh sem after the professor announced that although many of the students deserved A-range grades, only 35 percent were permitted to get them; as Akx says, there is a lot of variation from one class to another. And in several upper-level courses, profs (apparently on a deflation scheme of their own) have announced at the start that only 20 percent of students will get A-range grades. Also, in the intro courses realize that some students enrolled will have taken a similar course before, have competed internationally in the subject, or do no extracurriculars, and so they are likely to get many of the top 20-30% A-range slots. Finally, even if you did well on the midterm and papers/problem sets, you can’t assume you will do well on the final, because often the final will be extremely difficult so as to make it easily curved. </p>
<p>Overall, they have definitely not worked the kinks out of the new grading system yet. I hear from quite a few students that they have no regrets about coming to Princeton, and that the atmosphere among the students continues to be friendly and collegial (a credit to them, in my view), but that the new system has some problems. One sad thing is that it is leading some students to play to their strengths, rather than to follow their intellectual curiosity and try new things, in choosing course work. </p>
<p>The undergrad student government and the student paper have said they will speak out on this issue, and that sounds like a good idea to me.</p>
<p>Well, the USG and The Prince (which I write for) have spoken out on this already - it’s probably made the system a bit more forgiving, especially on graduating seniors (who could be really hurt by a weird grade drop in their last year).</p>
<p>RE: Grades in general - akx hit it right on the nail. A B+ is almost never impossible - an A often is. By the way, the cut-off between 1st quintile and 2nd quintile is 3.64 (trust me 
).</p>
<p>Sorry, I should have written that the USG and the Prince have said they have not forgotten about this issue and will definitely revisit it. It will be interesting to see the result of this: <a href=“http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2005/02/02/opinion/11870.shtml[/url]”>http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/archives/2005/02/02/opinion/11870.shtml</a> </p>
<p>The quintile cutoff would surely differ from year to year? </p>
<p>It’s interesting, though, isn’t it, that 35 percent of grades are supposed to be A-range, and yet less than 20 percent of the class has an A- (3.7) GPA.</p>
<p>Students cannot (in general) be expected to get the same sorts of grades in all their courses. There is no reason that 35% grades in A range should correspond to same percentage of students getting 3.7+ gpa.</p>
<p>Fer, what you say now makes sense to me. Earlier you wrote: “Considering that (and no disrespect intended) there are going to be athletes and legacies in most classes, it means that an A is really not tough to get.” Seems to me that implies that non-athletes and nonlegacies will find it easy enough to get A’s in various courses, and yet, as you now point out, it’s not true. (I am not, btw, the parent of a student in either category, though I have met quite a few very bright ones in both!) As several students have said, an A or an A-minus at Princeton is a grade to be proud of. In some of the survey courses, so is a B. I don’t mean to be argumentative, but I would hate to see the '09ers get the shock of their lives. ;)</p>
<p>By Prof. Ellenberg (who is unfortunately leaving Princeton). </p>
<p><a href=“http://slate.msn.com/id/2071759/[/url]”>http://slate.msn.com/id/2071759/</a></p>
<p>Ah, yes, I wonder whether any of the admins have read this…</p>
<p>if you come in thinking that you are going to get straight As in all of your courses pretty easily, unless you are retaking all of your AP credit classes, you will be disappointed. That is, unless you have gone to exeter or some similar school.</p>
<p>I had straight As, tons of AP classes, at a pretty good suburban high school. First semester at Princeton I had a 3.3. Now in intro courses I may have done better, but I’m just saying that As are not given out easily, especially in smaller classes. In science classes, rarely are 35% of the grades given out in the A range. Maybe 15-20% are, if youre lucky. In the humanities, you are asked to do things that you have never done before (or atleast I hadnt)–> like a 25 page term paper. And if you’ve ever learned the 5 paragraph essay or its equivelant, forget it right now. </p>
<p>If you work hard, you can definately get a B+, and probably an A- or so, but dont go in expecting a 4.0</p>
<p>“That is, unless you have gone to exeter or some similar school.”</p>
<p>I hear that even students who attended these schools are finding Princeton’s new grading system to be very challenging. As you can tell, I am not a fan. It’s ironic and puzzling that as high schools across the country are moving away from ranking and toward more portfolio evaluation, Princeton has implemented grade quotas. How does that foster creativity or intellectual exploration?</p>
<p>a B+ is like a 3.0 GPA, max.</p>
<p>THat is depressing. So to get a 3.8 GPA is hard? I wanna go to med school, ***. so basically stay away from Princeton since they do this crappy grade thing?</p>
<p>I’m smart, but not like a genius… although I’m smart… hhmm. Maybe Yale is better? They don’t cap grades and they don’t tell professors to not give As.</p>
<p>a B+ is a 3.3</p>
<p>“In general we can tell you that students with a solid B+ average from Princeton are getting into medical school. Our acceptance rate has always been excellent.” And that was under the <em>old</em> grading system. <a href=“http://web.princeton.edu/sites/hpa/[/url]”>http://web.princeton.edu/sites/hpa/</a> So there’s probably no need to worry about med school. </p>
<p>Unfortunately, no one will really know the result of the new system until the '08s, who have experienced it from the start, apply to law and med school. Here is the notice the university has put on its website and which it is apparently sending out with each transcript: <a href=“http://web.princeton.edu/sites/career/data/Grading_Policies.pdf[/url]”>http://web.princeton.edu/sites/career/data/Grading_Policies.pdf</a></p>
<p>Look, myopic, if your only goal for college is to get into med school, don’t go to Princeton. Do a direct med program.</p>