Did I write or intimate that charter schools are part of a monolithic operation? No reason to speculate about how aware I am of the results of charter schools!
@Data10 I am certain sampling bias plays a role, but there are a lot more variables to consider. We know for example standardized tests are less accurate at the tails than the centre. We also know that tests administered to children are less accurate than those administered to adults. In more recent time, we also learned that heredity plays a greater and greater role as we mature. Personality and opportunity (luck) must also be accounted for etc.
To reduce the “noise” inherent in the data, we need to focus more on meta-analysis and the test data need to be current. I think a personality inventory and structured interview are needed as well. In short, we need more tests, not less. Here is an article I was looking at lately. It is an excellent summary of what I always suspect and knew. Curious what your criticism of it would be.
http://www.annualreviews.org/doi/full/10.1146/annurev-orgpsych-031413-091255
In brief, my opinion is that standardized testing reduces personal bias. It seems like I have much less faith in subjective evaluations than you do, but I am sure this world is big enough for more than one opinion though.
Got to go.
Point noted Blossom and PG. but I think you inferred much more than I said. i was responding to Hannah’s comment about the valedictorian with the 35 ACT and not much to say. I certainly didn’t say it was a tragedy or would ruin their lives, just feel for the kids that are incredibly bright and do exceptionally well, but may be highly introverted, not given the opportunity to have super ECs or are not the kid that the teacher notices and raves about in a recommendation. They may well be just as, if not more, capable than the kid who was lucky enough to be born with a great personality and have parents who knows what ECs matter. I am not sure those kids are getting into Northwestern either. But of course they can have a good life even if they go to a college much farther down the ranking than Carnegie Mellon.
Harvard is filled with introverts. I’m not sure the point you are making.
I’m sympathetic to them as well, but they are kind of like kids who never had the opportunity to play a musical instrument, and thus weren’t able to go to Juilliard.
Really not worth discussing further. Hannah said her toughest clients were vals with 35 ACTs that have nothing to say and so don’t get good admission results. I said I feel bad for such kids, if this is a personality thing. That is all. I can see a kid with autistic tendencies or social anxiety issues falling into this category. Never said they wouldn’t ultimately be successful or have a good college experience. And some of those kids may get into Harvard. However, I know kids that, while very bright and great students, have flown under the radar, some because they would rather play video games in their spare time, but several others because they just didn’t have the social skills to be accepted, get noticed, or become a leader in a group activity. And they did not get the top colleges. Really, again an aside to Hannah nothing more and maybe my understanding of Hannah’s comment is in error.
mom2and, this is actually a topic that has been discussed a lot on this forum–whether Harvard is right in concentrating so much on the “look at me” kind of kid, to the exclusion of the quieter kid. My take on it is that schools like Harvard and Yale do take quiet kids, but they still tend to be kids who have really made something of the opportunities that they’ve had.
“My take on it is that schools like Harvard and Yale do take quiet kids, but they still tend to be kids who have really made something of the opportunities that they’ve had.”
Yes. On the whole, I think the Harvard student body is more extroverted and noisy than the general population. That impression could be biased by the circles I moved in (performing arts, psychology majors, transfers, and nowadays, the alumni who join alumni clubs and show up to social events). It’s possible to distinguish yourself in Harvard’s eyes through more solitary activities like visual art, science research, running cross-country, etc., but it’s rarer. Every high school offers a student body presidency, newspaper editor-in-chiefdom, starting point guard position, starring theater roles, etc. for leader types to fill. The paths just seem more obvious.
Let’s not forget that there are over 7,000 degree granting institutions in the US. Harvard is not representative of them. It is a mistake to use Harvard as proxy for US universities because it is markedly dissimilar to nearly all-by design.