<p>Our son will be a senior in the fall, and is considering several engineering colleges. He’s not sure what type of engineering specifically but loves math and science. He attends a small, rural public high school in central Florida. He is planning on applying to Stanford (reach), U. of Michigan, U. of Virginia, U. of Illinois, U. of Florida, Auburn, and Clemson. We have visited all schools except Stanford and Illinois and were impressed by the personal touch of Auburn. His concern is their ranking as far as engineering. With his 34 ACT composite and 4.0 UW GPA, tons of extra-curriculars, senior class president, etc, they are offering him a nice merit aid package comparable to half price of UF at instate tuition rates. As an upper middle class family with farm land assets, we don’t qualify as need based. All that said, my question is for those of you who have experienced college selection, is it wiser to save the $ on undergraduate engineering, attend Auburn, and save for a graduate program with more name prestige, or is it worth taking out loans to pay for a more highly ranked undergraduate engineering program? Thanks for any information you can provide. </p>
<p>Depends on industry.
To be an engineer, ABET accredited is enough. Some schools open paths to finance and consulting, however. Though he could get full-tuition somewhere for undergrad and then go to a name school for grad school (assuming he gets in).</p>
<p>Also, is he sure to go to grad school?</p>
<p>PhD study in engineering is typically funded.</p>
<p>But taking out parental loans, or student loans that require cosigners (i.e. more than the federal direct loan limit) is unwise in most cases. What kind of price limit are you looking at without loans (add $5,500 per year to get the price limit with direct loans or some student work earnings, or about $10,000 per year if the student is willing to take direct loans and work for pay while in school).</p>
<p>Is the Auburn scholarship automatic for his stats or competitive? If competitive, then he may want to consider other schools with automatic scholarships if he wants a low cost safety option (see <a href=“http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/”>http://automaticfulltuition.yolasite.com/</a> ).</p>
<p>For non-safety candidates with big merit scholarships, consider this list: <a href=“Competitive Full Tuition / Full Ride Scholarships - #46 by ucbalumnus - Financial Aid and Scholarships - College Confidential Forums”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/1461983-competitive-full-tuition-full-ride-scholarships-p4.html</a></p>
<p>You might get additional replies and relevant information in the ‘Engineering Major’ forum. That being said…</p>
<p>I’m sure you understand that engineering at Stanford, Michigan, Illinois are each quite hard to be admitted to. Virginia less so, but still quite competitive as regards admission. “Rankings” for undergraduate engineering can be misleading and misinterpreted. What matters the most is ABET certification. Sounds like Auburn is chasing your son, which is a great position for him to be in. Like any Engineering university, some departments at Auburn are stronger than others. For example, if he’s interested in Mechanical Engineering I would think that an Auburn education would be quite good, given the school’s relationship with automakers in Alabama. That’s also true of Clemson, which has partnerships with BMW and automobile engineering firms along the I-85 corridor in South Carolina.</p>
<p>It’s a bit early to think about graduate school. Most professional engineers in the traditional disciplines only possess a B.S., which is all one needs to get hired. Down the road, be aware that at most universities, PhD candidates are paid by the school/department with a stipend (and often, research grants).</p>
<p>First, let me say, I just joined College Confidential and I am so grateful for your responses. I’ve learned a lot already! @ Purple Titan: He says he would like to go to graduate school, but he’s really not sure. @ucbalumnus the regional admissions counselor we spoke with at Auburn said that scholarship offer is automatic with his stats. She also said there would be more perks if his PSAT score is considered National Merit in September and he lists Auburn as his 1st choice ($2500 for study abroad, $1,000 for a personal computer, and housing paid for freshman year. Without National Merit, still 1/2 price of instate tuition at UF for all four years. THANK YOU for the list you provided as well! @ LakeWashington Yes, I understand the admission challenges he faces at Stanford, Michigan, and Illinois. Stanford is his reach for sure, but you if you never reach, you’re guaranteed to not be admitted. 
A counselor at Michigan was very encouraging since he is very active in community theatre in our town and he said he’d never seen an engineering candidate with 35’s in math and reading on the ACT who loved community theatre. I guess that makes him unique. Illinois is simply on our radar for ranking and because our son really connected with the recruiter who came to Tampa to a college fair we attended. He too mentioned that our son should highlight his love for theatre in his application. I didn’t know about the relationships between Auburn and Clemson and automakers. I will share that with him for sure! Yes. In my opinion, Auburn could write a book on how to make a kid feel special. And, as a UF alum, it’s a little difficult for me to say that! Sadly, the University of Florida makes no attempt to recruit kids from our state. Truly, THANK YOU for helping me navigate this process. I have read posts on college confidential for years and have stepped out on faith by joining and posting. I am so happy I did!</p>
<p>If you can afford them, Stanford and U.Michigan are worth choosing over Auburn; especially Stanford and particularly if he has any desire to work in “silicon valley.” </p>
<p>If he expects to return to Florida for employment, very little advantage to Stanford or UM, however. Elite schools are generally only valuable for people with extremely high (national and international) ambitions. For such people, taking loans to attend Stanford might be worthwhile. Not likely for any other college your son is considering.</p>
<p>Auburn is a fine university with an excellent engineering school. It is just not elite.</p>
<p>Saving tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars is always worthwhile. Rankings are fickle and inconsistent. Should be taken with a grain of salt.</p>
<p>@Tbosmom. Your son may be just the “type” of engineering student Stanford is looking for…they are looking for highly qualified engineering students who have a passion/deep genuine interest in the HUMANITIES and ARTS…those individuals who can be multidimensional/interdisciplinary in their interests who can benefit from the wide variety of courses and extracurricular activities that they offer…</p>
<p>Tebow’s mom (heh heh. You are from Florida!!!), please don’t misunderstand. By all means apply to Stanford, Michigan, Illinois and Virginia. They are among the best engineering programs in the country.</p>
<p>Yes! As UF alumni, my husband and I chose to name our dog T. Bo in honor of Timmy…hence the name. I asked some UF engineering grad friends of mine, and the general consensus was Stanford was worth the high tuition if you can get in. @gravitas2, I appreciate your encouragement. That may be why he was drawn to Stanford over the other highly selective universities we’ve discussed. He was devastated earlier this year when Stanford invited him to apply to their summer program and then denied him admission. He emailed them and asked for pointers as to how to make his application to Stanford stronger in the fall and received a response that it is not their policy to comment. Fortunately, their initial rejection has fueled him to try again and really write a strong essay, so we’ll do the best we can and see if he gets noticed. @LakeWashington thanks for your encouragement. He will be applying to all of those schools. He loved both Michigan and Virginia when we visited them. @gravitas2, one of the aspects of UVa’s engineering program that he liked was their liberal arts approach to it. They help students not only create new technology, but also help them think through the ethics of whether it should be created and how its creation would affect our economy. </p>
<p>Wow, I am really surprised by the different impressions Auburn makes on students. Our ds eliminated Auburn the second we walked out of an undergrad advisor’s office. Completely and totally horrible is not a strong enough description! </p>
<p>@Mom2aphysicsgeek, I’m so sorry your daughter had such a rough time there. We were really surprised. The admissions counselor for the state of Florida spoke to us for about 20 minutes. She even took time to answer questions that my incoming high school freshman has about the marching band. After our visit, our son received a hand written note from her, the tour guide, and the dean of the engineering college. From the moment the gentleman in the parking garage called our son by his name and said warmly, “Welcome to Auburn” to the most recent correspondence from them, they have been 1st class all the way. How is your college search going or was your experience years ago?</p>
<p>Our son graduated this yr and is heading to college in the fall. Your experience at Auburn is the exact opposite of ours. The undergrad advisor was less than complimentary about the “NMS and AP scholars” in his classes. (It was a shocking rant.) He basically told our ds that there was no way he could be at the level he was and have any understanding of what he had learned. (Our son is significantly advanced in coursework. This man had no personal knowledge of our ds other than a list of classes he had completed and his grades. And he did NOT even ask!! The irony is that the professors here heavily recruited him to stay at the local university b/c he was the top student in all his classes.) The purpose of meeting with the advisor was to determine a viable 4 yr plan bc our ds does not want to complete his UG degree in 2 yrs. </p>
<p>This man was the only individual to respond that way to our ds. He had contact with deans and undergrad advisors at multiple universities who enthusiastically responded with solid options.</p>
<p>Auburn engineering is fairly well respected in the southeast. One program to take a look at is the Wireless Engineering major (under electrical/computer engineering).</p>
<p>As you know, UF spends little on Merit aid (but much more on need-based aid). However, it does have a few merit based scholarships that you son should apply for. These include the Lombardi and Stamps scholarships.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.honors.ufl.edu/Lombardi-and-Stamps-Scholars.aspx”>http://www.honors.ufl.edu/Lombardi-and-Stamps-Scholars.aspx</a></p>
<p>Apps are available in September, and the deadline for applying is in January. Each Florida high school may nominate two students. With his competitive stats, other scholarship may also be available (and don’t forget your local Gator club scholarships!).</p>
<p>Good Luck!</p>
<p>Wow. Mom2aphysicsgeek, I’m shocked and sad for you and your son. He sounds like a great kid. I hope he’s happy and I wish him success in the fall. @Gator88NE, I got to meet President Lombardi when I was a student at UF a hundred million years ago. Glad to have the link to those two scholarships! THANK YOU!</p>
<p>So one thing I want to say is that while admissions is the front porch of a university (what you see first), those folks will have zero effect on the quality of a kid’s education once you decide to go somewhere. In other words, that’s one aspect of a university that I don’t believe in weighing (for better or worse).</p>
<p>BTW, some of thoe OOS schools do have some (hard to get) merit scholarships.</p>
<p>If your child is interested in the auto industry, then visit UAlabama. The only Mercedes factory in the US is VERY nearby. And the awards at Bama are larger. Mercedes and Bama have a close relationship (evidenced by the MB sponsored stuff around the school and internships/co-ops)</p>
<p>I am certain that you will be amazed during a Bama visit…at the STEM facilities, the dorms, the friendliness, and beauty of the school.</p>
<p>momtoaphysicsgeek’s son will be attending Bama in the fall.</p>
<p>I recruit a lot of engineers. The undergrad “name” doesn’t mean as much as the GPA - with a few exceptions (MIT, Stanford etc). The school needs to be accredited obviously. Unless you want to go into academia - getting an undergard in engineering and then a masters in engineering really doesn’t make much sense. BUT having an undergrad in engineering and an MBA is a GREAT combination in the business world.</p>
<p><<<<
ers. The undergrad “name” doesn’t mean as much as the GPA - with a few exceptions (M
<<<<</p>
<p>very true. Most of my family are engineers (managers, directors, VP’s). Their companies look at: GPA (math!, too), courses taken, various experiences…and PERSONALITY…will the person be an asset to the team and work well with others…and will the person be the type that can present info, travel as needed, etc. </p>
<p>The only engineering field that likely ‘requires” a MS to be employable is BME. Otherwise, the BS is fine. However, the market has gotten more competitive over the years, and based on your major, a MS could be worth the extra effort. Several schools now offer a 4/1 program, where you complete your BS and MS in 5 years (less if you bring a large amount of AP/DE credit into college). Cutting off a year of grad school can save a significant amount of money.</p>
<p><a href=“http://www.mse.ufl.edu/students/prospective-students-2/undergraduate/combined-bsms/”>http://www.mse.ufl.edu/students/prospective-students-2/undergraduate/combined-bsms/</a></p>
<p>Some students are more interested in research, and would want to look at a MS/Ph.D. track. In that case, you want to look into undergraduate research opportunities.</p>
<p>Don’t forget to take into account which engineering programs are available at each school. For example, UA has several accredited engineering programs, but it doesn’t have an Industrial Engineering program:</p>
<p><a href=“http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=359”>http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=359</a></p>
<p>While Auburn has an accredited Wireless Engineering program, a fairly rare option:</p>
<p><a href=“http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=173”>http://main.abet.org/aps/AccreditedProgramsDetails.aspx?OrganizationID=173</a></p>
<p>Neither school offers Biomedical (BME).</p>
<p>The typical path to an MBA, is working in the industry for a few years, and then going back to school for your MBA (with your company, hopefully picking up the bill). However, getting an MBA right after your BS isn’t un-common for some fields, such as Industrial Engineering. My college roommate got his BISE from UF, and then his MBA from Rutgers. He’s a VP working in the health care industry (after following the engineering > manager > director, path).</p>
<p>Good Luck! </p>
<p>Here are some additional National Merit options:
<a href=“http://nmfscholarships.yolasite.com/”>http://nmfscholarships.yolasite.com/</a>
(Note the presence of Texas A&M.)</p>