<p>So I recently took the GRE, I got around 90% on both the V and Q, but I got a 4.0 on the writing which is 48%. </p>
<p>Is this too horrible?</p>
<p>I am applying to a program that does not require the GRE but it is optional. Should I not submit the scores because of the writing?</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<p>It depends a bit on the field, but the writing portion is the most subjective and dismissed part of the test and probably the application as a whole. Below 4.0 is worrying, 4.0+ is otherwise meaningless. I would submit it and not worry about the writing score, and if you decide not to there should be a different reason than this.</p>
<p>I have heard the admissions committee will look at your writing score and compare it to your SOP. Mainly to check for if you writing level/style of the SOP is similar to your score (making sure you wrote your own SOP and didn’t take it from elsewhere) </p>
<p>Seems odd to compare them to me… but then again, that’s just what I’ve heard.</p>
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<p>I would guess this is true and further, that for most students their GRE essay scores match their SoP. Just a hunch.</p>
<p>The notion that a piece of writing with a 30-minute time limit should be used to cast doubt on writing with full preparation seems like complete BS to me. In college I never got lower than an A- in English classes and always took much longer than average on my essays. I don’t think I was able to write more than a paragraph within the first half hour of actually sitting down to write an essay. Now I’m pretty worried about my 3.5 as I figured a good SoP would help counteract it. Surely good grades in humanities classes would also be a better indicator of writing ability?</p>
<p>I don’t think anybody cares about the GRE Writing portion… at least it seems that they don’t in STEM, anyway. The notion that writing ability can be determined from one contrived, time-limited sample is much less credible than the math and writing portions’ determining basic proficiencies. Just my two cents.</p>
<p>From what I have gathered from people on these committees, GRE scores have 2 main purposes : lower cutoff for screening outliers and tie-breakers for university wide fellowships. For quantitative disciplines, I think you are expected to get a full score on the quantitative part. I personally know people in the Ivies with 4.0 writing score.</p>
<p>It is true that in STEM, the GRE AWA by itself is not weighted heavily, but where it is valuable is in context to other application credentials. A couple comments in the thread allude to this, but it seems to be under-appreciated. The AWA adds to the few indicators of verbal ability and helps confirm or refute the adcom’s assessment from the other items. A great GRE V and SOP will not be overturned by a poor AWA, but a poorly written SOP, weak GRE V and low AWA could mean trouble. Non-native english speakers are impacted the most because the typical score pattern is low GRE V, high GRE Q, and low or terrible GRE AWA. Add that to the TOEFL, IELTS, or PTE scores on the individual reading, writing, listening, and speaking sections and the adcom gets a pretty strong picture of communication ability. </p>
<p>All candidates should be aware that the language in email and telephone communication, and during an interview (if any) also paint the communication picture so those are places to put forward a good impression.</p>
<p>A life sciences industry information service publisher once told me the biggest problem they face is in finding people that can write. There is a dearth of PhD holders that can communicate. Maybe the AWA should be more important than it usually is…</p>
<p>Depends on the area you are applying to, I would imagine, Drewl. Is it writing intensive? I know in philosophy it is important but how important I really do not know.</p>
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I’ve heard from various sources that AW is something of a joke in the humanities. The SOP and writing sample are taken far more seriously.</p>
<p>My department admissions spreadsheet does not even have a column for the AW score when I get the list of students and files. I’m in the social sciences, and we don’t look at the writing score: we have your writing sample and personal statement!</p>
<p>Put it this way, when I told my PI that ETS revised the GRE, his immediate reaction was “Did they finally get rid of the writing section?”</p>
<p>He serves on the admissions board for the neuroscience training program at my university. According to him, he sees many students with great V and Q scores but with horrible writing scores. The writing section is a completely impractical measure of how well you can formulate a cogent argument and then write it without performing research and all within 30 minutes. </p>
<p>The biggest problem is with international students, who may not only have limited English skills as it is, but also lack the normal cultural assumptions needed to respond to the writing prompts. The Verbal section can be studied, at least. The writing section can be practiced, but there is no objective measure of how well you are preparing. Thus, many students end up hot-dogging </p>
<p>US citizens may have similar problems as well. The ability to formulate an entirely self-contained argument without first performing research is in stark contrast to the type of work done in graduate school. Sure, having some familiarity with writing is necessary…and many admissions boards may not favorably view scores below 4.0, but then again, a well-written personal statement may counteract a poor writing score.</p>
<p>In my view, the GRE is a complete waste of time, effort, and money. The Q and V sections are like the writing section – as long as you don’t majorly **** up, it won’t heavily influence the decision to admit an applicant or not. I can’t believe ETS can charge $160 for exams and $23 to electronically send scores to schools…what a load of B.S.</p>
<p>Whether it is a fair test or not, it is the only component of an application file that every applicant takes and produces a standardized assessment. All of the other components vary widely and the test is still useful for distinguishing between applicants.</p>
<p>I took the GRE in May of 2011. I was pleased with my scores on the objective part of it – my verbal and quant scores combined were 1470. My verbal – 740 – is in the top 1% of scores. I have always gotten outstanding grades on both writing and oral presentation tasks in high school, my undergrad college and also in my M.A. program. I scored a measly 3.5 on the A.W. part. I think it is a worthless kind of busy work. The ETS needs to get rid of it. There is no correlation between that score and one’s ability to excel at writing tasks in graduate school. I am now in a sociology PhD program in the 4th ranked comprehensive university in Canada. The feedback from my research methods prof is that my execution of the essays is the best in the class. Our class contains two people who have been in the field teaching and writing for years.</p>
<p>Depends on the department.
If you’re good at BSing and know basic grammar, you should be able to get a 5. </p>
<p>My son got very poor writing scores on the GRE. He applied for grad school at a very competitive program and received a rejection very quickly. I often wonder if they just looked at that score and put him in the reject pile, despite his high GPA and research experience.</p>
<p>The reason why GRE writing is considered as a joke in STEM is, while success in STEM programs do need some writing skills, the writing style in STEM research articles is quite different from what is expected on the GRE. That said, I do not think a 4.0 will make me an auto-reject at UPenn, at least not in the context of a non-East-Asian international whose undergrad was in a French-language university (90th percentile on V, 95th percentile on Q will not make the rest of the GRE the factor that will reject me at UPenn).</p>
<p>The only purpose for the GRE that I can still conceive is that it tests the ability to perform under pressure to some extent.</p>