I brought this up a couple of months ago in the Math FAQ thread, so sorry for repeating myself.
My kid is now pretty conflicted as to whether to take Math 1B or take the AP credit and go straight to EE16A which has a lot of linear algebra/differential equations in it from what it sounds like. That is the question. Is all of Math 1B important as a foundation for the future math classes EE16A and CS70, and probably an upper level calculus-based Stats class?
Some background: He got a 5 on his AP Calc BC (subscores of 5 on both AB and BC) so he is allowed to skip both Math 1A and Math 1B. But that was a while back (11th grade), and he didn’t take Multivariate his senior year. From what I can tell from his 4-year planner, he isn’t intending on taking Math 53 (Multivariate) in the future unless he decides to switch majors.
So over the last few weeks he decided to take a set of published tests for a semester from the UCB website for Math 1B. Integration and sequences, no problem. Differential equations, not much problem. Series and Taylor stuff, very shaky. Then there was also some other stuff at the very end that he hadn’t studied before and/or have much recollection.
I think a lot of this indecision stems from the fact that last week he was comparing classes with some of his friends/peers on Facebook who are going to UCB. Most if not all of them are going right into EE16A or Math 53 or Math 54, or in one case Math 55. I think he feels some pressure to keep up with the Joneses (these are all cream of the crop math kids), even though I suspect that taking Math 1B is no big deal. He had B+'s in his AP Calc BC class. However, if he did take Math 1B, I fear that he might consider the class a “remedial” class, blow off the class and get a B or a C.
Another consideration is that if he took EE16A in the fall, he would probably be taking the class with a large number of the cream-of-the-crop math whizzes who have also credited out of Math 1A/1B, which may or may not be an issue with grading. Yet another consideration is that he has a ton of credits for CCC and AP and probably can graduate way early, especially if he can skip classes like Math 1A and 1B.
I honestly think Calculus is not that important at all for a CS major in L&S (MATH55 and CS70 are Discrete Math and probability). However, MATH1B and MATH53 are probably very important if your kid is going the EECS route. Then again, think of all the transfer students who took MATH 1B at a CCC, enroll in upper level courses in the fall, and still do quite well. If he took Calc BC in 11th grade, my guess is that he’s not in need of any “remedial math”
I’m the type of student who enjoys coding but hates doing pure math homework, so I’d rather take EE16A than MATH1B. Moreover, EE16A seems to rely heavily in linear algebra instead of Calculus and I think linear algebra is fun. But that’s just my personal preference…
@smsk As somebody working in Cyber Security filed (and having PhD, and doing Physics, and Math, and lost of scientific coding, and publishing papers in my past lives) I am a bit puzzled by the statement that Calculus is not needed for CS major. May be it is possible to navigate the graduation requirements without taking Calculus, but it will be hard to navigate the profession without knowing one. Remember that Computer Science is not about coding all the time. One has to understand the algorithms, and doing so is not fully possible without being fluent in Calculus.
@ElenaParent I know this is controversial. But I’ve found a lot of people in the software industry, including some professors who agree that Logic is to Computer Science as Calculus is to Physics (can’t post links in the forum, but at least two Professors teaching Comp. Sci. at Stanford and John Hopkins claim that CS prospects should be taught Logic and Discrete Math instead of Calculus). On a personal note, my husband is a senior software developer working for a well-known software company and he flunked Calculus 1 and 2 at school (passed with a C after retaking both classes), and he’s far from fluent in Calculus to this day, despite having worked as a lead developer and a software development manager for many years.
However, I do agree that any class that helps you improve your thought process and problem-solving skills is obviously not a waste of time, and I’m sure MATH 1B is one of them!
CS major degree programs generally require both calculus and discrete math (including logic). This is true at Stanford and JHU as well as UCB and many other schools.
@ucbalumnus yeah, I think the equivalent of MATH1A and MATH1B are pretty much standard everywhere, but for example, MATH 53 (Calc3) is not required for CS L&S?
@smsk I hear you. However, I want to emphasize that Computer Science is not just coding (software development). I was a Software Section Lead in a (also well know) company for two years (now back doing Computer Science and Cyber Security in the same company). I was hiring and firing the CS majors into my Section. Yes, I wanted to see plenty of Logic and Algorithms (it goes without saying), I wanted to see them being able to though together code in Python, Java, or C++, but I also wanted to make sure they can see what happens at the limits of things, I wanted them to be able to take derivatives and integrals, and figure what code to write to do it numerically (not calling Matlab, but coding it in straight C) etc.
So I repeat. It may be possible to get a degree without Calculus, and even to be a Software Developer without Calculus. But it will be harder to work in, say, Cyber Security, and in research-y type environment in big firms… I am wishing luck to everyone involved!
