How is this possible?

Paying for College
1

<p>when I talk to a lot of my cousins/friends in college (and also hear about their friends, roommates, etc), the general idea I have been getting is that everyone gets some kind of financial aid (need based, or merit). Even people whose parents make a lot of money get offered some kind of loan (Parent PLUS, unsubsidized, etc). </p>

<p>I seriously have not heard of anyone who got absolutely no kind of offer. I am still in high school, but year after year, I talk to my cousins and seniors, and everyone has gotten some kind of offer (except international students). Not everyone was happy of course and people complain about not getting more, etc, but everyone I have known of got at least something.</p>

<p>But recently one of my family friends (in college) has been saying some things that I don’t understand. He says that he and his brother (also in college) get absolutely ZERO help (no scholarships, no loans, NOTHING) to help with their education and they pay for everything in cash (tuition, rent, etc). And they scorn people who get “handouts” when they deserve it more than them. They always make snide comments about people who get financial aid, and if they know someone who gets financial aid, and they show up wearing a nice shirt or something, they say how financial aid recipients exploit tax-payers hard-earned dollars. They’re also very racist and talk about how certain illegals pop out babies every year, and expect tax-payers to support them. </p>

<p>So here’s my question: is it possible for an average working middle-class family to flat-out NOT get financial aid? not even loans? Is this possible at all? I somehow find this really hard to believe. i am still in high school, so my experience is limited to what I hear from people, but I still somehow find it hard to believe they don’t get any money, 0 loans, since I know people who are better off that get some financial assistance/merit scholarships. Honestly something about what they say rubs me the wrong way, and my gut instinct tells me they are lying about something, maybe they are getting decent financial aid, feel embarrassed about it, so they project this into belittling other… i don’t know, but I know they are lying about something. Their arrogance “i am better than thou since I pay cash” is starting to irk me, and for some reason, this just generally rubs me the wrong way, and after years of listening to their family say this, there’s just something that seems very OFF.</p>

<p>Also, if you know people like this, how do you deal with them? I have to be around them a lot, and I just get increasingly annoyed. I’ve been tuning them out for a long time, but it’s really getting to me now.</p>

2

<p>When you apply to college, you can check a box (usually) that states whether you want to apply for financial aid or not. These people obviously have checked the “We are not applying for financial aid” box. </p>

<p>Every US citizen is ENTITLED to the federal unsubsidized loan, but no one is ever forced to take financial aid. You aren’t even forced to take the free money, including the pell grant, FSEO grant or any institutional aid.</p>

<p>On a side note, it seems like they have a problem with public assistance (ie, financial aid determined by FAFSA, given by government) but they might not necessarily have a problem with institutional aid or merit scholarships. The last two are from donors to the school and the school WANTS you to have them, not effected by tax dollars. But even with this in mind, they could easily be paying full boat out of pocket.</p>

<p>So, in closing, everyone is entitled to some form of financial aid (at least a loan), not everyone takes it and a large-than-you-think amount of people pay the entire cost of their education out of their pockets.</p>

<p>If they do bring it up, ask them if they are paying for their education or if their parents are. I’m 100% certain that they are getting some form of assistance from their parents. If I’m right (I am), tell them that they have no room to talk because they take handouts from their parents, they aren’t self-made men and they are even worse than people taking financial aid because they are hypocrites.</p>

3

<p>No, that is a load of rubbish. Any student that is eligible to file FAFSA can get federal student loans. Even if they have no financial need whatsoever, they can still get unsubsidized loans of $5500 as a freshman, then $6,500 sophomore year and $7,500 for third year and up. The student does not even need a credit check to get these. About the only thing that wold make a student not eligible would be a drug conviction. They don’t have to take the loans of course, but they are certainly eligible (assuming they don’t have a drug conviction).</p>

<p>And as long as the parents have a reasonable credit score, they are eligible to take PLUS loans. If a parent is denies a PLUS loan because of really bad credit, the student is eligible for an additional $4,000 a year in unsubsidized loans.</p>

<p>As to how to handle it. Well I’d probably be a bit snarky and ask if they aren’t able to get student loans because of a drug conviction as that is the only reason why they they wouldn’t be able to. Or very kindly point out that if their parent has been turned down for a PLUS loan because of bad credit, the student is eligible for an additional $4,000 in direct loans as long, of course, as there are no drug convictions. But that is just me. (and I wold also avoid them like the plague - they sound quite awful).</p>

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<p>Thanks wmurphy for your reply. </p>

<p>to quickly clarify, he told me he DID apply for fafsa, but did not get anything. In general, he says a lot of things that just contradict what he says, that are inconsistent. </p>

<p>Thanks for pointing out something I didn’t know. I live around a lot of middle-low income families, so most people I know get offered some kind of aid (and have to take it since it’s the only option they have to pay for tuition, or convert loan to work-study). </p>

<p>I’d still assume that for people who get offered a loan, but choose not to take it, they wouldn’t be so vehemently arrogant about it. Or so critical about people who go for “handouts”. Also, I did what you mentioned before, so I know that his family is completely paying cash FOR him, so like you said, he’s also getting a handout (just from a different source, his family).</p>

<p>I honestly don’t know why it just irritates me and rub me the wrong way. Seriously every time I run into him, there’s just a sour after-taste, he must have some kind of psychological problem or something, he’s ALWAYS talking about other people’s money and financial aid and other people’s spending, it seriously bothers me</p>

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<p>hey swimcatsmom, thanks, that’s also something I didn’t know. Is there a federal website that explains that anyone who files can get loans, like you mention? I believe you, but the next time he brings it up, I want to show them. </p>

<p>And yes, I wish I could avoid them more than I already do. I already hate putting up with them when i do have to. I also have to generally apologize if I am being immature right now. I just had a prep class with him and after every time I see him, it just really bothers me, I need to vent about it, and it just RUBS me REALLY wrong, and something just bothers me about them I don’t know how to quite explain.</p>

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<p>Yes, there are a couple of web sites. The official government one is:
[Applying</a> for Federal Direct Loans](<a href=“http://www.direct.ed.gov/applying.html]Applying”>http://www.direct.ed.gov/applying.html)</p>

<p>There is also a quite useful site , finaid, that explains a lot about loans</p>

<p>[FinAid</a> | Student Loans](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Loans - Finaid)
[FinAid</a> | Loans | Student Loans](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Student Loans - Finaid)
[FinAid</a> | Loans | Parent Loans](<a href=“Your Guide for College Financial Aid - Finaid”>Parent Loans - Finaid)</p>

<p>You could say something along the lines of yo were talking to someone who knows a lot about the federal loan programs and that, assuming they are citizens or legal permanent residents, they absolutely can get loans. Tell them to check their FAFSAs to make sure they did check the box that asked if they want to be considered for loans s that is a common mistake. And give them the links to the above websites. Then any time they bring it up just ask if they went to the websites you gave them.</p>

<p>I don’t think a loan that you have to pay back is a hand out. I know very few people who attend even State Us that don’t have some sort of loans. The only people I know of that have no loans at all are those with very wealthy parents (I only know one off hand) who can pay out of pocket without loans.</p>

<p>You don’t sound immature at all. I wouldn’t like being around people like that at all and I am waaaay older than you. Hopefully if you call them on their “mistakes” about student loans, they will give it up (around you at least). A loud : “but WHY can’t you get loans, *every *US student is eligible for them unless they have a drug problem Ha ha” should do the trick. If they keep saying they can’t just keep asking why why why.</p>

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<p>OP,</p>

<p>I expect my son to be full pay. Even though he can get federal loans, I would not call it financial aid myself and I would say that he got zero aid. I am sure your friends think the same way I do and this is what they mean.</p>

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<p>" recently one of my family friends (in college) has been saying some things that I don’t understand. He says that he and his brother (also in college) get absolutely ZERO help (no scholarships, no loans, NOTHING) to help with their education"</p>

<p>Well, a lot of people don’t consider loans as “aid,” so that may be the issue. When the student/parent did FAFSA, they may have indicated that they didn’t WANT loans.</p>

<p>Any US citizen can get a $5500 student loan for freshman year as long as that amount (or other aid) doesn’t exceed COA.</p>

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<p>“Parent PLUS”</p>

<p>And any citizen parent can get a Plus loan as long as they qualify. Some schools don’t automatically put them in pkgs, but if you can still get one.</p>

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<p>It does not sound like that is what they mean at all, based on the OP’s post.

</p>

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<p>Swimcatsmom,</p>

<p>we don’t know what exactly has been said. I don’t doubt the brother said “zero aid”, but I doubt they went into detail that involved discussion of availability of loans. Especially, if the brother expressed his disdain for “hand outs”, because loans are definitely not hand-outs in my world.</p>

12

<p>It’s very likely that when the family filled out FAFSA, they indicated “NO”, when asked if they wanted to be considered for loans.</p>

<p>Some people do that because:

  1. they don’t consider loans as aid.</p>

<p>2) they don’t want loans and wouldn’t take them out.</p>

<p>3) they mistakenly think that if they say “no” to loans, that they’ll get more “real aid”…grants or scholarships.</p>

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<p>“ISo here’s my question: is it possible for an average working middle-class family to flat-out NOT get financial aid? not even loans? Is this possible at all?”</p>

<p>Yes, it’s possible if when they filled out FAFSA, they indicated that they don’t want to be considered for loans.</p>

<p>As to whether average middle class students will get grants or scholarships…often times such students do NOT get any “free money,” even if their FAFSA EFC indicates that they have some “need”. Since most schools do NOT have much of their own money to give, once a student’s EFC is beyond Pell Grants (EFC about 5000), then the student might not get any free money.</p>

<p>As for merit scholarships… Not all schools give merit scholarships, and some only give a few. Some give a good number of merit scholarships, but generally the student’s test scores have to be within the upper 25% of the school…and have a high GPA as well.</p>

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<p>If you look at each school’s website you would see percentage of students who are full pay, and often it’s over 50%.</p>

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<p>^ Perhaps for private schools. I doubt that’s the case for most public Us.</p>

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<p>^ Actually, I think it might be true for a lot of publics- if we’re not counting federal loans as aid. Many public schools don’t give much, if any, aid above federal and state help. </p>

<p>Whether people can afford to be full pay or not is irrelevant. I’m curious now though…</p>

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<p>They sort of discussed availability of loans- the way he phrased it, it sounded like he was expecting to receive loans, but were upset they didn’t get any loans. at the same time, they call it “handouts” and scorn illegals and “poor people” who need help. </p>

<p>It’s just a combination of attitude, and contradictory things they say. They make financial aid sound dirty, but then they make it sound like they’re upset since they didn’t get any loans they are expecting. </p>

<p>Also, in general, thanks to the posts that pointed out another thing I didn’t know. It’s possible that the son might have checked no for loans, which explains the whole “0 help” comment.</p>

<p>I feel calmer about this. I was more upset earlier just the way they treated this topic. I have friends whose parents are also paying in cash, but don’t act like this. They’re also more truthful - example: friend said she got offered small unsubsidized loan, but parents decided to pay cash for all of her tuition and dorm fee, minus expenses (so she’s taking the unsub loan). And they don’t act all high and mighty like this family friend.</p>

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<p>I agree that many publics have a LOT of full pays (not counting loans), since once you’re beyond Pell, many students get nothing.</p>

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<p>I would strongly suggest you avoid the topic of financial aid with others. Very often what you hear is NOT exactly what really is happening. Better to just steer clear of this discussion.</p>

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<p>^ unlike on the CC financial aid forum, where everybody always tells the truth, the whole truth, and nuthin’ but the truth?</p>