It seems like everyone is reeling from this past admissions cycle. Lots of good advice and suggestions for coming years are emerging but I wonder if we aren’t swinging a bit too far in the direction of negativity. For example, I mentioned in one thread that I feel that Hofstra is a safety for my daughter. (ACT 33, GPA 3.8/4, good rigor). Hofstra excepts more than 60% of its applicants and my daughter is significantly above their 75%. Yet, I was still warned not to consider it a safety because it admits holistically and considers interest.
I’m not arguing against the need to show interest - especially to safeties. What I am wondering is how many students were actually rejected from true safeties: schools that this CC community would have identified as a safety. It seems that many of the posts with titles like “rejected everywhere” actually mean, everywhere but the safety. Or the students listed schools as safeties that were clearly not in that catagory.
So I was wondering if we actually have any evidence that kids are being shut out of extremely likely schools. By that I mean, schools that admit over 60% where the student is in the top quartile. My guess is that those schools are still actually safe.
It can depend on the major sometimes really. Some nursing or CS or pharmacy or engineering programs for example have a different set of students who are different than the university average. Also there are limited spots in these programs so not every 33 ACT can get in to the program they want.
It can depend on the major sometimes really. Some nursing or CS or pharmacy or engineering programs for example have a different set of students who are different than the university average. Also there are limited spots in these programs so not every 33 ACT can get in to the program they want.
@gearmom Then I would argue that’s not a true safety. With D1 we had a lot of schools like that. One was nearly open enrollment but the program she wanted only admitted about 10% of applicants. We never considered it a safety.
Nothing is absolutely certain, unless a school admits anyone that shows up (local community college). Some schools considered safeties for very high stats kids may practice yield protection and wait list a kid that is way above the school’s stats, anticipating the student will be admitted to and attend a more prestigious school. The true safety is likely one that admits on stats alone and for which the student meets all requirements. I don’t see people complaining about rejections to true safeties, but to perceived safeties but are not.
And gearmom is right, the overall admittance rate may not apply to certain majors or programs.
Sometimes you only know it’s not a true safety after the fact. Also sometimes you are admitted and receive less aid and the college is not a financial safety. Lots of things can go wrong. No harm choosing a few really safe options.
Without access to a kid’s app/supp, we really can’t know who was deserving. The exception would be rack and stacks that claim to accept on a more quantitative basis.
I don’t blame yield management. But other institutional factors may apply. Even for a safety, it helps to put your full best foot forward. And know what that is.
My S17’s SUNY school accepted about 52% in the 2015 cycle; I don’t know the numbers for his year. Yet, I know of at least one student with numbers in the top quartile who was rejected artistically (vocal performance). So, schools where students are applying for performing arts programs, especially BFA’s, can’t be regarded as a true safety even if it might be one academically. The student in question wound up accepted at several private schools, which were more expensive. The parents were upset because they wound up having to pay a ton more money when they had assumed a SUNY school was a guaranteed admit because of their child’s academic stats. The student enrolled in an OOS private school before Excelsior was announced.
I know other students not accepted to SUNY schools and I am not talking about those considered most “selective,” like Bing or SBU.
All those are good points. No harm in having a couple of safeties. What I am curious is about is whether we have any actual examples of kids being rejected from schools they had a realistic expectation would be considered safeties. Do we have any examples where kids with stats above the 75% were rejected by schools with greater than 50% admit rates. If they applied to specific programs with lower rates, that doesn’t count. I, have not been able to find any examples.
I think you have a valid point. Many people are listing “safety” schools that have acceptance rates from 20-40%. Those are not safety schools, and depending on major (as gearmom posted), may not be matches. My daughter was accepted at all her safety and match schools, as well as one reach school (rejected and wait listed at her other two reach schools). She applied to programs with acceptances ranging from 10% to 61%. As a side note, there was a ten percent drop in acceptance rates to almost all reach and safety schools on her list between '16 and '17. She compiled her list in '16 so we were worried that her list wasn’t as balanced as we initially thought (13% - 77% acceptances were what they were in '16) so when application time rolled around she added another safety. It was a regional university that she had visited multiple times for summer programs and with her HS that had rolling admission. The emotional value of having an early acceptance before Thanksgiving can’t be underestimated.
True safeties would be auto admit based on stats that your child has achieved.
My standard for a safety is that the applicant’s stats place him or her in the top quartile and the admission rate is over 50% (excluding cases of specialized majors) and it is affordable for the family and where “demonstrated interest” is not a factor.
My neighbor’s child was waitlisted at UW-Madison (for which we’re in state) with an ACT above Madison’s 75% and a 4.0 GPA from one of the top-ranked high schools in the state. Madison accepted 53% of applicants for the 2017 entering class. This student didn’t apply early but she didn’t miss the deadlines, either.
I am very interested in this question, as my students often talk about getting rejected from everywhere and thus “ending up” at community college. (Their words, not mine!) So I looked at the common data set for CalStateLA, which would typically be thought of as the most safe of the safeties for students in the Los Angeles region (except for community colleges). It is primarily a commuter school and hence not considered “desirable” in terms of the residential experience, though it has superb programs in education, social work, and several other majors. I have always been impressed with the faculty I have met from there. Anyway, if my math is correct, their admit rate hovers around 62% in the past couple of years. Roughly 75% of the students enrolled had over a 3.0. So I think for LA kids, you might reasonably conclude that there is no university that is a safety if you have a C average. At a B average, you are probably looking at CalState LA as a “match” if we are going just by the numbers. I’m new to these match-safety-reach categories, though, so perhaps my thinking is wrong. I’d love to hear what others think.
@rosered55 -
Do you think that your neighbor’s child could have been waitlisted in the hopes that a full pay OOS student would take that spot and bring more money into the state?
In my reply, above, I defined a safety as having an admit rate of greater than 50%, but in my OP, I wrote 60%. I meant to stick with the 60%. So my definition of safety is one where the student’s stats are above the 75% AND the school/major/program has an admit rate of greater than 60%.
@techmom99, yes. I have read that UW-Madison started using the common app last year and applications went up 20%.
^techmom99 That is an excellent point. You could be rejected or waitlisted based on your ability to pay.
@rosered - UW-Madison is a popular location for kids from wealthy LI school districts and I know a bunch who have gone, even before Common App, though I am certain it has made the situation “worse.” My boys have a good friend who is there on a ROTC scholarship and he said there is no shortage of OOS students. That’s why I asked.
@rosered55, what school/major at UW-Madison did that student apply to?
And was that an unweighted 4.0 GPA?
I encourage at least 2 safeties (and agree that stats in the 75th percentile or above, accepting at least 60% of applicants, and showing interest are all required). It is good to have choices in the spring.