I am a Sophomore, and currently taking Spanish 3. My question is whether I can skip Spanish 4 in Junior Year, and maybe take it in Senior Year.
A little bit about me: I am currently a Sophomore, interested in pursuing a STEM major, potentially Chemistry, and just started working on a research project with a local professor. For my Junior Year, I will like to take courses that help me with research during the next two years, before I apply for college. These courses include Data Science and Linear Algebra, but taking these courses would mean that I have to skip Spanish 4 in Junior Year. I am planning to apply to T30 schools. Is it OK if I completely skip Spanish 4, or if not, take it in Senior Year? I read that T10 schools want to see at least 3 years of Spanish in High School. If I have taken Spanish 3 in Sophomore year, does it count as 2 or 3 years of Spanish?
It’ll be school by school - it likely will be fine - but if you’re looking Ivy, take Spanish 4.
And what’s top 30? Top 30 US News National? Top 30 in Chem - a U Del, U MN, etc. Top 30 LAC? Top 30 College Factual or College Transitions so schools like Pitt, RPI, Michigan State?
For best options, best to take it but in most cases you’ll likely not need it.
I wouldn’t count on skipping a year - if you don’t take in 11th, you are unlikely to come back and it would be hard.
So without a full list it’s hard to know - but chances are you can get into a strong chem school with 2-3 years.
There’s probably 100 top 30 schools. Maybe more - depending on how you’re identifying top 30.
It depends on the specific college in terms of what they expect (or require). You may want to check the admission web sites of the various colleges of interest.
Be aware that some colleges have foreign language graduation requirements, so a higher level in high school may allow you to place into a more advanced foreign language course in college so that you need fewer courses in college to complete the foreign language graduation requirement.
If you choose to start a different foreign language in college, German may be useful for chemistry due to much of older chemistry research being done in Germany.
Many colleges consider the level attained to be more important, but specific colleges will vary.
But high school level data science is probably not a worthwhile substitution for Spanish 4.
From what I’ve read (my son is in a similar spot- a junior who chose not to take Spanish 4 after sophomore year) it would still count as 3 years, even if taken as a sophomore, as long as it is a high school level course and on the high school transcript.
I missed this - thanks @ucbalumnus For learning, these are great. For college admissions, not so - you want to ensure 4 years of the core subjects for the elite of the elite. Data Science isn’t that. Linear Algebra is - but of course, if you get to Calc AB - you’re good for most every program in the country….BC definitely good.
You can skip it but, as a foreign language speaker, I know how hard it is to return back to something after a year of non-practice. Foreign languages require frequent practice or full exposure on a daily basis.
I know that at my daughter’s UC, some of the STEM majors were required to have foreign language to graduate. Because she took four years of foreign language, she wasn’t required to do it at her college, but her friends who were in STEM, were hating life because it was required AND faster, more intense as well as time consuming.
It all depends of schools you will apply. None of my kids took more than 3 years of FL in HS (One took 2 years and had enough.)However, 2 had seal of bilateracy with their heritage language. (One never bothered.) 2 took FL in college (different from HS) , the heritage one, for easy As. The one in GaTech had no language requirement. She could skip FL all together. The one in LAC , actually Chemistry major, had 3 semesters of FL requirement, and got lucky to test out with heritage language. She hates FLs, but will need to take Spanish that she never studied in medical school anyway. So I would do what you like at this point. You will be fine.
3 years of high school foreign language is enough to meet the FL requirements at a lot of T30 (in chemistry) public schools. The T30 chemistry rankings have a lot of public schools unlike the overall US News ranking. One option would be to avoid applying to schools where this is not enough.
Some schools even make a distinction in FL requirements between a B.A versus B.S degree in chemistry like the example below. Though I must confess I could not see how the requirements are different except that they want you to take college courses in FL and do not seem to care about the number of years of FL in high school.
OP mentioned “Top 30” schools. And while many of those don’t technically require 4 years/level 4, most recommend it. To be a competitive candidate at “Top 30” schools, follow the recommend path if possible. My opinion.
For most schools, 3 years will be fine - but I don’t believe anyone will see a data science class as additive over language.
The biggest determinant as to where you attend school is money - finances, what can you afford.
But there’s lots of top 30 Chem schools because there are several rankings - and you’ll be in good shape if you decide to stop Spanish now….for some of them.
By the way, in most cases a “top 30” won’t matter - but I suppose depends on your outcome desired…but schools like Pitt, Delaware, Minnesota - all strong in chem - you’ll be fine.
It seems to be popular (at least at the 2 publics my kid is considering that require FL to graduate) that students take community college courses to meet the language requirement rather than do it at the college itself, for this reason.
Of note, in the northeast and the schools around here, IME, language in 8th grade isn’t really considered “in HS" as the level isn’t really the same. It doesn’t often show up on transcripts, etc. So you want 3 years of language IN HS, regardless of level…so around here everyone takes at least through junior year, and competitive for top 30 (or whatever) all 4 years in HS, regardless of major. e.g. Why You Should Follow My 5-4 Plan for Course Selection
My middle-of-the-road engineering applicant 25 did just fine (admitted RIT, WPI with merit for engineering, etc. ) and way above what their courses/GPA would indicate, and they followed this. CC would say they would get in nowhere with a 3.3ish UW and no AP Calc, test optional (did take “regular” calc) or AP sciences (though the school offered them). Took 4 years (through year 5) of a language. Also got into an equally high-ranked school for CS (did take AP CSx2). Obviously these schools are a step down from Top 30s, but the Top 30s people I know ALL TOOK at least 3 years of language in HS mostly at least through AP level, even if STEM
YMMV but I am big proponent of wide selection in HS and ECs supporting your major (and obviously rigor in your major-aligned classes)
People on this website choose the word optionality a lot. I think that’s what language delivers.
Most likely don’t even have data science in hs and no one is looking for it, just like CS. To keep options open, those should come after loading up in the core.
I’m not sure how to define top 30 - depends on the study. But mine got into a 2nd level LAC ((W&L) with two years language but that was only because the third year was cancelled. I’m sure that mattered and she didn’t get into any other top - Emory, Rice, UNC, W&M. But dud schools like IF and even UGA and U of SC Honors - which are top level.
So you are right - YMMV - but Spanish removes a possible risk to admittance at some schools.
On the flipside for chem, a UMN or Delaware will rate higher than - say top flight ranked overall schools.
I hope OP finds the right environment and lets lists which really are meaningless except for advertising - I hope they let them fall by the wayside.
I will say, I DO think there is a different in top privates and publics and should have said so. They often (not always) are a bit more formulaic and ok with “min.”
Almost everyone on here means US News top 30 (and I think mainly universities but SLACs too), I think you know that and just don’t agree with it;)
I totally get Dartmouth or U Chicago isn’t in the top 30 best schools to study aerospace engineering, but in common admissions speak parlance, they are top 30 schools.
If you are applying to one of those (or Williams or Amherst). They want 4 years in HS of a language for everyone. UGA may care less….
Admissions want core academic classes. Data Science isn’t, anatomy isn’t, journalism isn’t. American History is. Chemistry is. Spanish is.
Honestly, I agree. A lot of grown adults have such little breadth of knowledge …I am sad our grown engineers took French 1 in 8th and French 2 in 9th and have zero idea how language is constructed..IME/O people don’t look at their own language in the same way.
FWIW the link I gave, the author was at Penn, and in charge of the wharton/engineering program admissions. That is her advice. My 27 goes to a private with really top college counseling (former AOs, they say same - more or less - nobody takes 2 years of foreign language in HS AT least 3 and kids have HUGE range of options ..)
I agree it’s what most mean but not SLAC. So do they draw the line at U Florida? Then others mention BU and NU. There’s really no way to know what anyone means til they come give a list. We see people say top 20 all the time and include BU and Northeastern as examples. And in top 30, Ga Tech, Tufts, NYU, Purdue, UIUC would be out
So yes, it would help for someone to say what they mean.
But the comment is also intended to get OPs in general to look deeper bcuz a rank doesn’t define what type of environment, school or cost one is.
As for schools like WPI and RIT mentioned above, great schools but comparing requirements vs tippy top is a bit outside given they have much higher admit rates and far less competitive students than the most competitive - assuming that’s what OP means.
