This is a challenging issue and in our world, there are no hard and fast answers. S is pretty financially independent, but we gave him two large “loans” that he hasn’t repaid and we are fine with that. One was for him to have more inventory for his online business and the other was to fund his solo 401K. He otherwise has been financially independent and has actually taken over paying the family cell phone bill for all 4 of us!
D is still 100% financially dependent on us, tho she has her college degree because she has chronic medical issues we are all working to resolve as well as possible. We paid 100% for her 6 years of college and have been paying 109% for her always, except for a brief part time job she was able to hold for a few terms at school to supplement spending money. (By contrast S got a merit scholarship of over 50% tuition for all 4 years, so cost us a LOT less.)
We can afford to support D, for the rest of her life, if need be, tho we HOPE at some point her medical issues will be resolved so she CAN work enough to support herself, but who knows? (She has been seeing a variety of docs for over a decade.) We are just taking things as they come, tho probably should consider investing somewhat more aggressively, so funds will continue to exist to support D comfortably for her probably very long life.
When DD gets that job as a RN, then its time to close the bank[ except for cases of emergency] . Ditto for DS when he graduates AND gets a job…
I WOULD suggest to both of them that you be most grateful if , at a minimum THEY start to pay premiums for a Long term care insurance policy for you and DH,[ when they have jobs] to give ALL of you some peace of mind for the day you can not continue to care for yourselves, by yourselves.
Yes, that is a really tough question. Because even though many of us would be able to support our kids for a long time, should we? For example, on one hand, I know we could make our younger son’s life really easy by paying rent and giving him money to get by in NYC, where he wants to live…but I think I don’t want to take away the struggle from him. Part of me wants to make everything as easy as possible, but the rational part says, no. He hasn’t asked for financial help, either.
I’m starting to realize how difficult the job process is. It was really easy for S1, got a great job almost a year before he graduated. S2, in the same field (software engineering), has put in a ton of applications, trying hard, and getting almost no response. I’m perplexed, this is an awesome field, but it seems that if you are a new grad (and his school has been no help), people aren’t interested. A recruiter just asked him if he wanted to work at a help desk. Did we pay for all that college for him to get a job at a help desk? Though I’m not knocking honest work of any kind, I don’t think he has to be in this situation yet.
So I wonder, how much help, and for how long should we give it? He is very undemanding, trying his butt off, and we cherish every moment we have with him. Of course we would let him live here forever, but we know that’s not what he wants.
Sometimes I’d is odd. Internships and part time jobs during the school year REALLY helped S rise to the top of the applicant pile when he was interviewing for jobs. He was an EE and received 3 job offers while some of his peers got none.
He stopped asking for money after we gave him a last check as a college SR. We did offer and give him money twice after that–to grow his online business and to give home a nice start to his solo 401k.
We do NOT want or expect our kids to pay premiums on a LTC policy for us. With current premiums and terms, the policies do not seem worth it to us. We would rather our kids be self sufficient and have independent lives and save to buy a place and for future kids and their own financial future.
When we vacation with our kids, we do happily pick up the tab most of the time–we are surprised and delighted when the kids offer to pay. :x
^^Yeah, I agree about the LTC policy. Unless you already have something in place, it seems way too expensive to start now. I don’t visualize ever asking my kids for money, or to pay anything for us. I hope that is the way our life plays out.
“Sometimes I’d is odd. Internships and part time jobs during the school year REALLY helped S rise to the top of the applicant pile when he was interviewing for jobs. He was an EE and received 3 job offers while some of his peers got none.”
I think that is huge. A problem is that many of the tech jobs my son had, were involved in teaching, and kids. I’m sure he could get something related to kids–but those kinds of jobs are low paying. If you go to a school that provides little recruiting in your field, you just have to do that kind of stuff on your own.
D1 was off the payroll as soon as she graduated, got a job and got married. D2 was off after graduating with her MSAc, getting a job and getting married. We still have a family plan for phones and both are willing to pay their share but we have been too lazy to let them know how much is their share.
S’s internship after soph yr was because he went to driver’s ed at public school and re-connected with a buddy from middle school math counts. They were both into math and science and stayed in touch. The friend had an opportunity to go to MIT for the summer but wanted his prof to have someone to help him over the summer who would LEAVE when school resumed. S was thrilled to take that job, as he attended school in CA and was no threat of keeping the job with the prof. It was a win/win. (S was also accepted at another HI internship, but they didn’t like his plan of going on a trip for all of July, so S turned them down, as the prof was fine with S being gone in July, as long as he got the work done.)
It can be hard work AND happenstance that allows for internships. S has some interesting karma but nice skills that he adapts to varying situations. He did work with kids and robotics for 3 summers prior to that internship with the prof.
The following summer, he interned with NASA. When he was interviewing the following fall for a full time job, the recruiters told S that they’d consider his two summers of work as two years of experience! They noted but didn’t care so much that he worked part time during the school year in a EE lab for the prof and was writing some journal articles.
We were done supporting S1 after he graduated college. He went to grad school to get his PhD, but lived on his research stipend. He had no loans from undergrad or grad school. Even when we offered to pay for his transportation to visit us (a short bus trip), he refused. He was still on our family cell plan, but paid for his line. It was rather surprising to us since he was the kid who complained if we told him he had to pay for something himself when he was a kid.
Our approach has been a little different with S2. He graduated college a semester early, so we agreed to pay his rent and utilities for the first 6 months after he graduated (that cost us less than tuition, room and board for another semester in college would’ve been). He has covered his living expenses since then. We always cover his plane or train ticket when he comes to visit us. We pay for his expenses when we travel together, usually to family weddings or to visit S1 who lives across the country now. He’ll probably be applying to grad school this fall in a field that doesn’t offer stipends. We have offered to “lend” him money for that, with very flexible repayment terms.
DS lived at home for several months after graduation. We did not charge for rent or food. When he moved out, he immediately assumed all those expenses.
DD has graduated and is living at home while searching for a job. She is working a retail job to make some money (they actually give her full time+, which is nice), but it’s not all that much so I see no need to make her pay rent or for food. If she was just laying around the house slacking, I might feel different.
Neither have student loans. Both have always paid their own car insurance. Both are still on the family phone plan and EZPass account, but really that’s chump change.
We’ve tried to be fairly equal in our treatment, but it’s not a huge priority. It was for my father - I used to get random checks in the mail, when he had to give my brother money for something (it took him 9 years to get through college for… reasons) he would cut a check for the same amount to the other kids.
Where am I going with this… IMO, once they have “real” jobs they should be paying for their own lives, living within their means. Grad school is a tougher question, I am surprised shawbridge has to pay his DS’s living expenses - was he not offered a grant or whatever? And at some point he has to stop working for free for startups. They are fun, but you can have a great job that a company that pays well, too.
We retired 7 years ago. Husband and I both have pensions and ss. Husband lost about 30% of one plan due to cuts. We didn’t expect that and the biggest shock we didn’t expect was the high cost of medical insurance. I pay close to $900/mo, for just me alone. DH has medicare and plan F which has been amazing. He had cancer and shoulder surgery and not a dime out of pocket. So with him and our daughter we pay $1400/mo just for medical. That is way more then we ever budgeted. We are fortunate that we have our pensions and hopefully no more cuts. So for being older I can’t wait to just get that one more year in ,lol. My medical will drop $600. Just in time for our daughter to start college in another 2 years. I really worry though because I know the pension plans today are not at all going to pay in the future like ours do. Very scary for her and my older kids. The reason we retired early was dh lost his job due to the changes in technology. Couldn’t find a replacement that paid like his old job. My knees just gave out and I couldn’t do 12 hour shifts as a nurse anymore. Fortunately our pensions were more then we could find jobs to replace with similar income even retiring a little earlier then normal, so we went for it. Jobs today just don’t seem to pay like they use to! Just keep in mind if you retire before 65 health care is painfully high for older folks!
“I am surprised shawbridge has to pay his DS’s living expenses - was he not offered a grant or whatever? And at some point he has to stop working for free for startups. They are fun, but you can have a great job that a company that pays well, too.”
Yes, and that great job that pays well can also be a startup. Tons of startups paying big buck salaries. A startup was paying my oldest 140K. Now only if my youngest could get half that, but I’d think Shawbridges kid could get a high paying startup job, easy.
DD was off payroll after graduation, even though I offered support and hated to see her living in sketchy neighborhoods. She is ABD on her PhD, has a good job, and continues to refuse my offer to pay off loans. I would love to do so, but props for sticking to her guns. She did ask for $2k once, a loan I readily made and forgave, but that’s it.
DS1 took the scenic route and was estranged for 7 years (look up parental alienation). He is back, for which I’m grateful, and I’m paying his expenses while he attends college.
DS2 is off the payroll for expenses after this summer, at least until next year. We will continue to pay for tuition, room and (most) board, but his summer internship and campus job will be >$25k/year, so he can cover travel, entertainment, Roth, etc., himself. What he does next summer will also probably pay well, but we’ve made it clear that experiences and learning matter more to us than money earned. I have little doubt that he will launch successfully.
DS3 is just starting college next year. He spends like a drunken sailor, so we insisted that he get a job and save some money for next year. A great lesson was that scooping ice cream at Haagen Dazs pays much less (~$8/hr) than doing graphic design (~$50/hr), so he’s looking to expand his clientele. I expect that he will be on payroll the longest.
DW and I somewhat disagree on this topic. I don’t mind some subsidy, but I don’t want my kids to be impervious to their choices. I also think that there’s an amount of inheritance that might be harmful, depending on the kid. DS2 will earn as much as he thinks matters to him, and any inheritance will be invested. DS3 will fall prey to every scammer when he gets an inheritance; I call him the proverbial bankrupt lottery winner, although he’s young yet and has some maturing to do.
@notrichenough, he was offered a big fellowship by the CME folks but the business school folks said he couldn’t take it in his first year of business school. The CME folks also have asked him to go for a PhD, which would be a full ride. He isn’t so much thinking of working for a startup but starting up a company as CXO (CEO or CTO, I would guess). Not clear when you start getting paid the pretty good bucks. He just turned 26, which is a good time to try the startup world, although I thought he might want to work for a big company for a year or two first.
D started full-time work a week after graduation, though we offered a trip. We paid for the apartment deposit and first month’s rent, utility startups and we bought her a car. After that, she flew on her own, and has continued to do so despite a transfer to NYC. Manhattan rents are not cheap.
She’s still on the cellphone plan, but set up an auto reimbursement with her bank that sends us the requisite amount every month regular as clockwork. She’s off the family payroll, and I think that’s a healthy thing.
But…if she needed money to may unexpected medical expenses we’d step in in a heartbeat. And if her startup shut down or reorganized we’d also back her – though being a frugal kid, she’s got a three month emergency fund in the bank that she’s saved up.
I hope (and expect) that we’ve done enough good planning that she will not need to step in to pay for our retirement or medical expenses. We think a lot about choices we can make to simplify things so that she isn’t left with some of the messes we had to figure out with my parents and with H’s parents. Hope springs eternal.
Yup. Like @arabrab, I’m not planning to ask them to pay for my LTC. ShawSon said that he will sell to our trust some shares of each of his startups (at founder’s prices, which is usually pennies). He can’t give the shares, because he is a beneficiary. If he is successful, that could be meaningful – it could easily repay all we paid for tuition, cell phones and the like. If he’s not successful, I don’t think he will have difficulty getting a job that pays quite well.
Is having your children pay for your LTC insurance a “thing”? I hadn’t heard of this before. Nor do I see my kids having the means to do so for awhile (nor do I have the personal necessity to have them do so), so it won’t be happening in my family.
I hope you are getting some founder’s stock in return for your support.
Unfortunately, as a founder in the startup world it can be never, unless you can attract (or are willing to take) financing up front, and IME it’s very hard to get that first round without a substantial track record of success. Investors got much more timid after the .net implosion 15 years ago.
I back up @shawbridge for allowing his son some leeway because I think what son is learning will have him jump into very high $$ pretty quickly. I was going to match his son up with DD1, but DD1 has a BF who we think will be a keeper . DD2 is too young and has lots of adventures before a serious BF IMHO.
LTC insurance has gotten too pricey for what policies are. Better ‘self fund’ and try to reserve extra. Also if one has term life insurance policies this can possibly help (like one spouse dies, and one has LTC costs).
One has to get creative.
We have been good to our children. One of my friends who works where DD is interning (friend is Accountant) - DD2 said “do you know Kathy drives a Porsche?” and I said “yes, her H drives one too; they don’t have children, only pets”. Lets her know both DDs are our ‘treasure’.
DH has 5.5 more years to work - we both turn 65 in 2021. May need to take a company transfer due to recent developments at current work site. Company has great insurance. We do what we need to do. If company had not sold (and new company did not continue pension plan) we could afford insurance with the pension, but don’t have the pension.
We paid for car insurance and basic cell phone (data charges are on them) until college graduation. We are still paying, and as soon as DD1 secures her job (BSN) and things settle down, we will prorate stuff through the end of the year on the car insurance (she has her own cell phone - we paid her the remaining months in cash). DD1 is driving our car until she can afford her own - maybe driving grandparent’s hand me down for a while too.
DD2 is itching to have her own vehicle - we will get her in a vehicle sooner with a bribe to stay in the STEM MBA program (complete MBA one year after UG degree).
We are encouraging DD1 to look into NP curriculum once her life settles down a bit.
We hope to know the job situation for DH and go from there. I maybe will get back into nursing work here (long time BSN) before moving OOS and moving license - easier to get a job here and establish a bit before the move.
I never heard of this before, either. It would be like saddling my kids with an extra car payment for the rest of our lives, which will hopefully be 30+ years. I wouldn’t do that, if we get LTC it will just come out of their inheritance.
. DD2 is too young and has lots of adventures before a serious BF IMHO.