How Much Do You think You Need to Retire? What Age Will You/Spouse Retire? General Retirement Issues (Part 2)

Why? Simply providing information from the primary source.

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As noted in my reply, primary source is not only consideration if employer is providing insurance - then have to also consider that information.

And yes, Medicare may not require signing up when first eligible for Medicare A, but that can change. IMHO better safe than sorry.

I saw this article yesterday on how Suze Orman hates the FIRE movement and says you need at least $20M to retire early.

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Isn’t it better to read the source than speculate, is it? :wink:

An employer providing creditable coverage cannot force someone reaching 65 sign up for Medicare. They can encourage that, but not force it.

https://www.medicare.gov/basics/get-started-with-medicare/medicare-basics/working-past-65

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ClearMatch is a ‘trusted Non-Government Resource’ - read the fine print!

An employer may not be able to ‘force’ anyone to enroll for Medicare A - but I think they are talking about the non-free Medicare portions. Also some employers may set up their benefit programs which work out best for what they decide is best for the company/company ownership/stockholders/employees in general. One has to decide with their employment and employer rules and requirements.

I am not in this situation, and maybe those that are in this situation can talk on this thread about what they do – and how it fits in with the theme of this thread “How Much Do You Think You Need to Retire/What Age Will You/Spouse retire.”

DH and I retired based on insurance coverage and becoming 65 or close to 65. DH retired 7 months before turning 65 because he could emotionally not stand his boss any longer and knew we had enough money to retire. I worked enough hours with my employer to pick up family insurance coverage for DH and I, saving over $1,000/month from COBRA costs. I turned 65 three months after DH, and I filed for SS and Medicare right at 65. DH signed up for Medicare A at 65, and picked up the Medicare B, supplemental insurance, and drug plan when I went on Medicare and other insurance. DH started drawing SS and we also started drawing money from our annuities (penalty free amounts) 5 months after I retired. We retained COBRA dental for 18 months to keep dental coverage, and after that signed up with our dentist for coverage with that dental practice - paid an annual fee which included some services and some discounted services. We have been with that dental practice for many years, and have great dental care with them.

Did you see the second link? :wink:

Plenty of sources, including Medicare itself, to back that up. Just do a search. Case closed. :sunglasses:

$20M ? That is a clickbait but she has a good point. Someone who lets their skills go stale or obsolete because they leave workforce early has to be absolutely sure that their funds can last without them needing to look for a job.

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This is nothing but click-bait and undermines her claim of being financially astute. First of all, very few will ever have $20M, so according to her, only the super rich can afford to retire early. That’s nonsense. Second, her statement shows lack of understanding of basic math. Not even worth the time I spent reading it. :roll_eyes:

I have been pursuing FIRE and am not worried about running out of money. My math has been confirmed by numerous retirement calculators and paid finance professionals. The most likely outcome will be leaving a very large inheritance for my DD. The simulations that FIRE followers run take into account the possibilities she mentions, so again, :roll_eyes:.

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I’m not clicking on the Suze Orman article. I have watched her PBS series and generally agree with what I’ve heard, but I have decided that financial advice is like parenting advice.

You start with your basic core beliefs and fill in the gaps with information that tends to reinforce your already-held convictions, tinkering around the edges and being open to new information, for sure, but people by the time they near retirement age know whether they are savers or spenders or risk-takers. Dave Ramsey, for instance, has some basic info for people who are really struggling with their spending that’s smart (quit charging everything!), but I’m not that person. I’m following some people on YouTube and watching their videos who makes sense to me.

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I watched her PBS series, and she does point out some things for some people there which is good info for them.

Dave Ramsey has good points but everything is not one size fits all.

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I don’t know much (anything) about Suze Ormon or her financial philosophy, but I thought the FIRE movement was centered around retiring really early. Like in one’s 30’s. Literally decades before the traditional age of 65. There is a big difference in retiring at 35 v even 55 (which I consider an early retirement).

That article never defines, “early.”

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I agree.

There is a big difference between someone with young kids retiring at age 38 with $ 2 million and an empty-nester retiring at age 58 with $ 4 million.

I don’t know that either needs $20 million, but the 38-year-old does face a much higher likelihood of having the money run out, especially if paying for kids’ college educations, etc.

But would Orman take the same position with the 58-year-old? I kinda doubt it.

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It’s about retiring earlier than 65, but it’s not limited to a particular age group. Most FIRE followers are retiring in 40s-50s. Even in the 30s, many can afford to retire on $2m provided their expenses are controlled. FIRE in the $2m range is probably a hard concept for the average CCer to understand since CC skews upper middle class and a $2m early retirement is solidly middle class. It’s more than adequate for most people in the US. It provides a standard of living higher than the average/median American standard of living.

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I usually see a 4% withdrawal rate quoted in regards to these retirement funds.

So, that $2 million dollars would provide $80,000 yearly and 4 million would provide $160,000 yearly. It certainly varies by personal circumstances what might be needed.

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Agree Suze’s “you need $20 mil to retire early” is alarmist and stated in a vacuum.

As noted upthread, there are so many factors in play - how much a retiree spends per month, whether they have a pension, how early is the early retirement being contemplated, are there other continuing income streams available post-retirement, is there any debt post retirement.

I understand she is trying to tell people to be cautious, but the advice is reductive and extreme.

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In her quote in the article, she did not say one needs X dollars. The article writers used one number she mentioned to create a clickbait headline.

Oops. Did not mean to reply to the poster I replied to. :slight_smile:

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I’ve often advised looking at annual credit card spending report to get a yearly overview of your spending trends.

Caveat: Crosscheck things, especially if you have big credits. Today I had to send some feedback to Chase/United about accounting error in their detailed “Spending Report”. Although there is a nice Summary that gets categorization correction, the detailed Spending Report erroneously count credits as new charges. Example - My Spending Report travel category subtotal is $6000 higher than onthe summary. Crosscheck shows this to be due to an $2600 airbnb refund and $400 Viator refund (delta is 2x because they did not deduct credit and added it as a new charge). No issues on 2023 billing or 2023 summary… just a big issue on that nice detailed, categorized Spending Report.

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I forget that those annual spending reports exist. Should probably take a look at them.

As I commented somewhere in this thread weeks ago, I pull my CC charges into Excel (well, CSV & then open in Excel) and sort into broad categories. By broad I mean that I do not try to figure out what I bought at Amazon or Costco.

I do the same for my checking account, but since the largest outflows are to CC companies, I go a step further and actually sort the CC statements by merchant.

I do this once/year, just to see where I am spending money, and to encourage myself to loosen up a little.

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NYS retirees including teachers can keep their insurance. There was a huge political fight when NYC wanted to require a very generous MA plan (including coverage of retirees who left the state) but the retirees fought it off last year.

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Here’s another source on enrolling in Medicare A and B (official govt website):

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