If only the documents were available.
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We have some documents available, others we are waiting on.
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I’m not sure whether this is a good place to raise this, but I wonder if any of you have encouraged your kids to sign a pre-nup or whether you have counseled against it. We did not do so with ShawSon. When he was going out with a previous GF whom I thought would have posed a high probability of divorce, I had created a dynasty trust that owned his shares in his company. With ShawD, I have not done so. She does own a house but her current studies will put her on a reasonably high earning path but I don’t see big wealth creation on her natural path – our dynasty trust has and will benefit her. Not clear if a pre-nup makes enough sense for two relatively normal earners that it would outweigh the discomfort about talking it through.
I am no expert but my son and DIL, who did not have hugely significant assets before they got married, did a pre-nup for certain things.
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My daughter and her husband have a prenup. She always wanted one but especially after seeing a family member go through a horrible divorce that lasted 2 years. Was hugely expensive
She doesn’t plan on divorce. They are both on the title of the house, bought before they married.
We, her parents, had no input. I have no idea if his parents had any. I kinda doubt it.
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I have read that marriages that have a prenup have a slightly lower divorce rate compared to all marriages. Signing a prenup forces couples to talk about finances, which is probably a good thing. I have wondered whether the effort to agree on a prenup causes some marriages to just not happen at all, and if so, whether these might be marriages that shouldn’t happen.
I would not counsel against it. Whether I would argue in favor might be something I might need to figure out relatively soon.
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We talked about suggesting a pre-nup but in the end decided it likely wouldn’t be useful after some consultation. What we have advised is they not comingle income they get from an investment they had prior to marriage. Ideas also told it makes a difference what state they reside in.
When gifting some assets we titled the asset as our child as his/her separate property. We also had the spouse sign a quick claim.
I’ve been married 40 years and my spouse has property gifted to him by his parents that I hold no claim to.
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Our child who signed a prenup with her now husband said that negotiations process was like going through a divorce! So many things to consider. What if there is a child? While custody and waiver of child support can’t be a part of a prenup, some related financial aspects of property division can be.
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As a lawyer, and one that has done divorce work, there is no way my DD was not getting a prenup. No one ever thinks they need it until they wish they’d had it. My DD has an ironclad prenup to protect her even if she accidentally commingles separate property. When they got married, she had significantly more assets than he did. She will also be getting a house down payment from me when they’re ready to buy. And she’ll inherit a sizable estate. Also, because she learned from me, they are doing his/hers/ours finances. They’ve been married 1+ years and it’s working well so far. My son-in-law is a great guy and I think they can make it, but no marriage is guaranteed to last. People change, and I’ve seen too much to have advised her to forgo one.
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Are people more concerned about a pre-nup protecting daughters than sons? 
Our son entered his marriage with significant assets, but no pre-nup. He has a substantial inheritance coming and high earning potential but, what’s his is hers, what’s hers is his, they co-mingle.
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No one plans on getting divorced, and sometimes prospective spouses say one thing when talking about attitudes and approaches managing money before you’re married, yet then do another while you’re married.
Before we married, my ex said all the right things in regards to money management. I can’t say that he was lying, or if he just changed his views over time, but after we were married he became a prolific spender.
When we separated, he insisted in mediation that all assets were his (as I had to leave my job due to a medically fragile child for two years), and that our house should be sold to pay the credit card debts he had accumulated when he secretly opened new accounts (which included thousands of dollars in charges for flowers, restaurants, hotels, jewelry, and lingerie for his affair partner; discovery was a hoot).
But wait, there’s more. Furthermore, as my Dad—one evening, years prior to this—said wistfully to several of us offspring and spouses whilst having dinner on their deck: we’re so lucky to have a place like this, and one day this will be yours…
My ex husband insisted that my Dad meant that he was thus entitled from that moment onward to a quarter share of their estate. I wish I was kidding.
Yes, this was nonsense. And there is so much more that I’m leaving out. But at the end of 3 years (THREE YEARS) of trying to negotiate via attorneys, him then taking our divorce to court (where he had even subpoenaed my parent’s wills to prove that one day I would be one of the owners of their vacation home)….it was over.
Yes, the judge told him all of this was legally nonsensical—he was entitled to none of it. There was no standing for any of his demands! But the judge also said that maybe if I hadn’t made him so upset, and instead given him money as a goodwill gesture, then he wouldn’t have escalated matters to this degree. And so she declined to reimburse attorney fees.
Those three years cost me six figures in attorney fees, and countless stress and sleepless nights.
I think pre-nups can be a way to say: I love you so much, that I want to ensure that if our marriage ever broke down, that neither of us would be so blinded by anger that we would separate in a way that hurt the other person.
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We chatted with our newly married kid about this. A few months after the wedding he disclosed that he and wife did it, so we didn’t have any input beforehand. He indicated that it is very common among his peer group - early 30’s, tech employee.
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My daughter dated someone who was part of a family business, it was a messy arrangement and included lawsuits and plenty of lawyers. I think the idea of a prenup was formed in that relationship although they didn’t marry.
Gave her an idea of how messy family relationships can be.
Also our family members divorce was different but similar to @blueberriesforsal in that it was long, messy, expensive. Having a judge decide your settlement is not for the faint of heart. There was an appeal and now another lawsuit. Seemingly never ending. What a very long mess that no one wants.
My son got married before this messy divorce. He also married younger than his sister with less assets.
I think the reasons are more situational and maturity than gender.
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In our case, the prenup was put in place mostly to protect SIL’s assets than our daughter’s assets because the ratio was like 50:1.
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No prenup for DH and I. We both came to the marriage with nothing, and immediately comingled all funds. DD and her spouse, and DS and his spouse did not do prenups. In those cases, also, neither parties came into the marriage with funds or debts. We be simple folk.
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I think a couple needs to be able to talk this kind of thing through if they are going to marry.
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If I’m not mistaken in my community property state any assets purchased or money earned during the marriage is community property. My kids all do the three accounts his,hers and joint but it was pointed out to them that all money earned is actually there money.
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I have been listening to James Sexton on various Podcasts/YouTube videos - he is a Manhattan attorney who specializes in divorce. He has been a divorce attorney for 25+ years and has a lot of wealthy clients but started with everyday folks. He is interesting to listen to on various shows. He has two books (first one was 2019, If You are in My Office Its too late….)
As others have said on this thread, sometimes there is a very good reason for certain family inheritance or other properties to have detailed out. Also pointed out that what either was hidden in an individual or later ‘changed’ with marriage - and long/messy divorce.
This makes sense especially on later in life marriages IMHO.
Mr. Sexton pointed out that marriages end either in death or in divorce. Also about the state determining the ‘terms’ if you don’t have a pre-nup. Essentially the state determines the terms. He talked about a pre-nup that he worked up in a business model - I haven’t looked it up but I am sure it is easy to find; would have to be state specific.
DH and I have been married for coming up on 47 years. I co-mingled my inheritance funds, but DH is very thrifty and pretty much what has been spent has been for DDs’ benefit, for our home, purchasing replacement vehicles…. DH still is a co-owner of parents’ home, and we have no issues with that. We help pay property tax/insurance.
DD1 has been married since 2017 and they have 5 children - they both came in with little in assets and the little debt got paid off. DD2 and BF of 6 years are separately on budgets discussed together, and paying off debt/living separate cities right now.
So sorry for those on this thread that have experienced difficult divorces. My sister’s husband - she saw an immediate change in his behavior to her in private as soon as they were married, but she naively thought this was how marriages were. When her daughter in late elementary school had suicidal thoughts (due to the stress with her dad/his anger issues and the marital tensions) my sister knew she had to get a divorce. 2 lawyers fired him. Sister’s attorney said he was the worst he had ever seen.
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The inheritance I received from my parents was in trust in my name only. My parents did that on purpose, not because they didn’t trust H rather they wanted the money going to our kids after I die. H still benefitted. You can do this if you want to make sure your estate will stay in the family.
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Question
My mom has a brokerage account, not a ton of money in it.
I’m the financial POA, the FA called today. He wants to add my kids as beneficiaries to mom’s account in case I predecease her. According to him, to add my children as backup beneficiaries, he needs their social security numbers.
I told him that I would ask my children. Any advice as to if I should or not? I’m not a fan of giving out my adult children’s information
My in-laws I know do not have my kids social security numbers. In fact, this year was the first that their FA has my husband’s and mine. That’s because he set up an account when the in laws gifted us money and we asked that the money stay with that FA. Now we have a brokerage account with my in-laws brokerage, that was the first my in-laws asked for our social security numbers.
Everyone has a will. Including us, my mom and my in-laws.