How much does race factor to admission?

<p>"Euphoria shooting through my veins, amby262roy you are litterally the last person I thought would agree with me… "</p>

<p>bro, the only parts of the argument i agree with u are the ones that logically make sense to me… i mean come on if they have chinese, why don’t they have vietnamese or Portuguese or hindi (i am indian)
ya and from my chinese friends who have taken the test , they say that its basically 1st grade lvl chinese in china. (***… pretty infair imo)
and i can see shiomi’s point as well as azndoufus’s</p>

<p>The reason why having a majority Asian UCI feels ‘unbalanced’ is it doesn’t mirror the demographics of CA or LACounty, not even remotely. You can debate the origins of this elswhere (and probabyl find tons of articles about this) but in general there are lots of Asian students in good schools with good SAT/GPA/etc. who apply and get accepted (as also shown by the stats for UCB). I don’t get how you’re ever going to suddenly change the demographics by more than +/-5 percentage points by just tweaking SAT2/SAT1 requirements and all, without affirmative action (which I wont debate here). Heck, Harvard, Cornell, MIT, all are 20%+ Asian, have AA which helps URMs (not white/Asian applicants) and draw from all around the US. </p>

<p>[Affirmative</a> Action, the Stealth Version | The John William Pope Center for Higher Education Policy<a href=“warning,%20biased,%20I%20will%20look%20for%20a%20better%20source%20later”>/url</a></p>

<p>Edit: here:
<a href=“http://wwdw.insidehighered.com/news/2009/02/05/uc[/url]”>http://wwdw.insidehighered.com/news/2009/02/05/uc](<a href=“Affirmative Action, the Stealth Version — The James G. Martin Center for Academic Renewal”>Affirmative Action, the Stealth Version — The James G. Martin Center for Academic Renewal)</a>
Also :
<a href=“http://www.asian-nation.org/headlines/2009/02/new-university-california-admissions-rules/[/url]”>http://www.asian-nation.org/headlines/2009/02/new-university-california-admissions-rules/&lt;/a&gt;

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<p>I don’t really approve of removing SAT2s. Even though the language tests may be very easy for immigrants, people born here and not reading/writing that language will have much to study. Also, the fact that an 800 in Mandarin is somewhere below 60th percentile will mean something for the human who reads the SAT2s and not as impressive as straight 800s on other subjects… and you can always put in World History, Chemistry, whatever else you want. If you programmed the ‘Cal Poly SLO-style’ computer to give language SATs a disadvantage that would be blatantly wrong.</p>

<p>But the problem with the computer/SAT-GPA only system is that people would be decided based on margins of 0.01GPA and 10 SAT points. Application systems at top schools consider extra-curriculars, essays, and other things.</p>

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Same here, though I’m sure virtually nobody else agrees with the racial quota % argument, or that saying “there are too many Asians” in the UC system.</p>

<p>I apologize for the extra d in my post yesterday. Then again, who are you to talk about my grammar when you’re a nobody who couldn’t get over the 600 mark for writing. lol.
I’ve seen countless people like you who didn’t do well on the SAT and blamed it for its stupidity. Face it.
Math- No skill is needed for the math, you just have to avoid the gay little tricks they throw in.
Lol? You sounded like you’re so smart when they’re only lil tricks, then why… the 580 in math?
are u aiming at schools like UCB? uCla? or ucsd?? good luck dude. i see why u’re blaming the asians, simple because you’re not good enough. ;)</p>

<p>oh and please, dont talk about my grammar, bring on something else</p>

<p>That isn’t my quote…</p>

<p>I still agree with that the UC’s should match the demographics of the state still… </p>

<p>I would guess that over 70% of asians apply to atleast 6 UC’s, while if you looked at latinos it would be the opposite… If we maxed the number of UC’s one person could apply to, the UC’s would definitely be offering more spots to more people… Thus moving toward matching the states demographics… Agreed? </p>

<p>SAT II’s- Eliminate any racial tests (language)… At UCSD they combine SAT Reasoning and both the SAT 2 tests, that means a person getting a 2100 reasoning and 550math 2 and 550 physics would be looked at the same as someone getting a 1600 reasoning and then scoring 800’s on two basic SAT II language tests… Complete bull shiit</p>

<p>Oop: The United States of America is not California, this statement is very important as I list the problems in your argument:</p>

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<p>Not in California, the state this debate is based on. Only 30.1% of students in California K-12 system are whites.

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<p>It doesn’t matter if everyone was hurt considering the fact that you did not apply such condition to UC admissions where “if everyone applied” instead of those who applied only. Let me apply that “if-then” statement into UC admissions: If everyone in California applied at the same rate, then 70% of the people who are admitted should be white. Problem: EVERYONE IN CALIFORNIA DOES NOT APPLY TO UC AT THE SAME RATE. You’re trying to conclude a statement using two contradictory causes where in one statement assumes only those who already applied and the other assumes everyone applied. </p>

<p>If you stand by the statement above, which really goes against the purpose of the government and health care here, then since not everyone applies at the same rate, then the the demographic one-to-one rule doesn’t necessarily need to apply. Therefore, the counter-argument above is invalid.</p>

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<p>I’m not sure what you’re reading but it’s clear your reading comprehension is lacking, that, or you fail at analyzing statistics, if at all. That chart shows you the OVERALL demographic of the U.S. military in ALL 50 STATES. Not California exclusively. Remember the statement the U.S. is not California? </p>

<p>Let’s also be clear that the U.S. military DOES NOT DISCRIMINATE or use RACIAL QUOTAS. Therefore, any demographic statistics that seem to correlate the demographic of a state to that of its military is coincidental and only gets so far as to who volunteered, not what the military selected. </p>

<p>GET YOUR FACTS CORRECT before you make an argument out of them.</p>

<p>I have a few thoughts about this inflammatory and controversial thread…</p>

<p>Oop, amongst a lot of other things, you said, "I believe the admissions should be based purely on SAT scores, and GPA. Like at Cal Poly SLO(demographically accurate to the state). I think with admissions involving subjects that can produce biased admissions, the system will be corrupt (no essays special considerations, clubs, ethnic clubs). That way applicants are purely based together in the same group with no special considerations…</p>

<p>Or match the demographics of the state: More whites, blacks, and latinos. NO MORE 60% asian UC’s! (UCI). . . . . . "</p>

<p>So, just to be clear, you want everybody lumped together in the same group with no special considerations, other than SAT scores and GPA? But on the other hand, you want to give SO MUCH consideration to ethnicity that everybody must compete within their own ethnic group in order to match the demographics in the state? You seem to be talking out of both sides of your mouth, as the saying goes.</p>

<p>If all colleges had to go on were SAT scores and GPA, there would be many more qualified applicants than spots, and there would be no means of distinguishing which of those candidates would be a better fit for them. Essays, clubs, EC’s, etc say a whole lot about a person. The colleges are not really looking for “numbers.” They’re looking for human beings with personal experiences. Every college we visited mentioned that they want to know about YOU when they read your application – the personal side of who you are and what you believe in and what makes you tick. Sorry … they don’t want just numbers. Why would they?</p>

<p>Not to mention, Oop, you might not want the UC system to be based on numbers only … you might not get in! Your numbers are not very high, and there’d be nothing else to set you apart. There’s clearly something you bring to the table, or all the colleges that you say accepted you would not have accepted you. But whatever it is they liked about you, they probably saw it through more than your numbers.</p>

<p>(Another thought … I’d bet that if the college admissions people read these posts from you, you may well have been declined everywhere! Truly, Oop, you sound narrow-minded, illogical, racist, bitter, and ill-equipped to deal with dissention. Colleges tend to be more liberal-thinking, tolerant, and accepting. Maybe you’ve been raised by a bigot or two? I’m in my sixth decade of life, so I’ve been around the block. I have a hunch that you’ve been indoctrinated with the anger and bitterness I’m hearing from you. You’re likely unaware of it because it’s all you’ve known. I may be wrong. You’re young still. You’ll learn as you get out and do more in life. You’ve resorted to name-calling so many times in the last 8 pages, simply because people disagreed with you. Then you claim that THEY’RE unable to discuss controversial subjects. Much to learn, young Padawan.)</p>

<p>You speak of competing within your own ethnicity for spots in order to match the ethnic demographics of (what?) California? The U.S.? Wow. And you call yourself an American? You keep making the Chinese analogy – 60% white people in Chinese colleges… There’s just one basic fact that you seem to be ignoring. Many of the Asians that are attending our colleges ARE citizens! WHY would you want to go divvying our U.S. citizens up into ethnic groups and assigning benefits based only on ethnicity and their demographic representation within our country?! That’s not how it works here in the old U.S. of A. If the 60% white people in Chinese colleges were Chinese citizens, then what’s the problem? But you’re comparing apples and oranges. You’re comparing white Americans in China to Asian American citizens in the U.S. Ridiculous. </p>

<p>Unfortunately for you, the colleges get to pick what they think are the most important qualifiers for admission. Employers get to pick what they think are the most important qualifiers for employment. If you jump through the right hoops and possess the right qualifications for selection, you get the education/job! It’s very simple.</p>

<p>But instead, you choose to rebel against the rules that are out of your control. The SATs are stupid. The qualities the colleges want from an applicant are stupid. Too bad, Oop. You don’t make the rules. Somebody else does. You want what they’re offering? Follow their rules. Very simple.</p>

<p>There are reasons for tweaking the system. Eliminating SAT II’s from consideration is a good fix that will likely level the playing field so the colleges can more accurately choose the qualities they’re looking for … but that doesn’t really change the KIND of applicant they’re looking for. It merely eliminates a statistic that hasn’t been doing a good job of identifying that kind of applicant.</p>

<p>There’s a reason that, as one poster observed, it’s practically everybody against Oop on this thread. And it’s not the reason you stated. It’s something bigger than you … that you are unable to see … because of your pride, ignorance, and upbringing (I’m guessing).</p>

<p>But you’re young. You’ll learn one way or another. You get to choose if it’ll be easy to learn or hard to learn.</p>

<p>Hey, Oop, what happened to your 3am-ish post that was on this thread prior to mine?</p>

<p>You were tired of all this (blank) and you were going to bed … but first, you had a few more cuss words and anger to spew in the reader’s general direction?</p>

<p>Did you retract it?</p>

<p>You could just lie about race or put mixed on the application…would they seriously do a DNA test to find out your race?</p>

<p>Oop got banned. He now has a new sn and wants to continue to cause problems on UC threads because he seriously has nothing better to do.</p>

<p>A LOT!!!
my friend here (ucla) is mexican. got a 1600. 4.1 UC gpa. went to a really bad school and made cal, ucla, ucsd, and ucsb. hes below middle class and gets a free ride here.
and i have friends from hs who had 2200, 4.2 gpa, high middle class and get rejected from cal and la. so yeah race def. matters.</p>

<p>peabeeandjay - your evidence does not prove race matters, only that low income, bad schools and other challenges are given huge preference by the UCs. Wouldn’t matter the race of the applicant.</p>

<p>oop - Here’s my opinion: The people who are most qualified for the university should get accepted into the university. Race should have nothing to do with it. The fact that Asians are the ones that are trying the hardest to EARN these test scores and high grades just show how dedicated they are and the potential success that they will have at the university. It’s not Asians’ fault that they try hard and are successful, while other people don’t try as hard as them, and they shouldn’t be knocked down because people don’t want to try as hard as them and want to get a higher chance of being accepted just because they are a minority other than Asians, because if you don’t know Asians are a minority in the USA. My advice: Quit complaining about Asians because they work harder than you do. You should learn from them the importance of being committed to school and do the same. EVERYBODY needs to start trying harder and focusing more in school because we are all not doing as well compared to other nations. By the way, I’m half Filipina and half black, and I come from a single parent household with a mom that has always taught me that education was the key to success. Although she hasn’t pushed me as hard as some other parents do, I just naturally realize the importance of education and I push myself to be successful. I think affirmative action isn’t a good thing because it limits certain minorities to not try as hard as they should, and it is downright UNFAIR. If you work harder, you get better results, and vice versa. A slacker who gets in because they are a minority is just not fair, especially when colleges drop a white person or an Asian person with better stats because of their race. Affirmative action should die. Enough Said.</p>