<p>Well, the bottom line is, affirmative action is illegal in California.</p>
<p>My stance is: I am strongly against affirmative action because I see it as an extreme form of discrimination. Denying education due to ethnicity is just wrong.</p>
<p>I agree that the SAT’s are a very poor measure of intelligence. It doesn’t even try to measure intelligence, rather, it measures your chances of graduating/doing well in college. However, there is no other standardized, objective (as much as possible) way to determine a person’s chance of success in college. Oop (assuming you have 1800); Ren (assuming if he has 2000) may not be more intelligent then you, but by his SAT scores, he is more likely to do well and graduate from college then you are. </p>
<p>Oop, how about you propose a better way of measuring a person’s likelihood of doing well in college and sending it off the UC system?</p>
<p>Haiku, the majority of Asians in the California are 1st, 2nd, or 3rd generation. Just like the Hispanics. Both ethnic groups have had to build up a living from nothing through hard work. (I actually talked about that in my application to UCs.) </p>
<p>Yes, there are exceptions. (Yea I’m going to spell it out because Oop won’t catch the implication) Such as the large group of Chinese immigrants who came over during the construction of the railroads and Japanese immigrants before World War II. But there were also a massive migration of Mexican laborers into the United States during WWI when the boys were sent to war. Also, California had a large Mexican population prior to The Mexican-American War. + more</p>
Explain how making the state’s race distribution match up with the UC’s race distribution is fair? Do we have a set of dollars called “white dollars” that are specifically earmarked for white students, and if Asian students end up using the UC’s resources and thus those dollars, it is unfair to the taxpayers? </p>
<p>Not only is the above view fundamentally wrong, college admissions simply cannot not be based on racial quotas. Supreme court cases have established that and Proposition 209 has made it obviously illegal in California.</p>
<p>Are you simply bitter that there are too many Asians in the UCs? The tone of your first few posts seems to indicate that.</p>
<p>To the other posters making generalizations about ethnicties, while they may be true they can’t be statistically proven properly. But you CAN take a look at stastics now, including admissions statistics, and how Asians have a higher average GPA or SAT than other groups. To set this fact straight, as of now, **the UCs do NOT use race-based affirmative action and do not grant specific racial preferences to blacks, Latinos, whites, Asians, or American Indians. **</p>
<p>
If the ‘best students’ in China were truly predominately white, then I would not care. But the vast majority of people immigrate to the US for better education, not to China.</p>
<p>What OOp is trying to think is that each race group in UC applications has an (approximately) equal amount of ‘great SAT scores’/‘qualifications’. But on the non-racial AA based UC application sytem, Asians are far over-represented in both applications, and accepted students. On one level, this brings up the question: If so many more Asians (percentage wise) apply to the UCs, why should they not be overrepressented? And more importantly, if ON AVERAGE these Asian applicants have slightly higher SAT scores/other measures etc. then why should they not be over-represented? For example, at Berkeley:</p>
<p>
Now what do you want to do, make it so fewer Asians can even apply to UC Berkeley?</p>
<p>
vs.
[qoute]… but honestly I think the SAT’s are bullsheet…
[/quote]
</p>
<p>
Agreed to birdkiller. “That way applicants are purely based together in the same group with no special considerations…”
That is not how the US works. We don’t care about ‘fairness’ to in invidual racial group as in making sure if X% of the US is Asian, X% of EVERYTHING is Asian. We care about being fair to individual people. Whether we grant certain under-represented minorities and/or economically disadvangted people is the discussion of most AA threads. But what Oop is trying to push is the worst form of collectivist racial quotas.</p>
<p>ok, affirmative action doesn’t benefit asians and it’s illegal for public universities in California as 6starsgleaming said</p>
<p>and oop, face it, you got raped on your SAT and by colleges because UCD is among the bottom of the UCs</p>
<p>to others, i am not a big fan of affirmative action because i think college accpetance should be merit-based, not ethic-base, and to all the people out there saying UCs are “infested” by Asian, let me make one thing clear: if you don’t have the ability/merit to get into the better UCs, shut up and do better before you talk again</p>
<p>chupungryeong your are an idiot. UCD is not at the bottom of the UC’s its arguably the in the top 4, and is better than any UC in some departments… </p>
<p>“oop, face it, you got raped on your SAT and by colleges”</p>
<p>Cool lol, ive been accepted by every college I have applied to so far, but I guess im getting “raped” by colleges.</p>
<p>Obviously your not a fan of affirmitive action, because all of you are asian. </p>
<p>BUT LETS FACE IT, if race should be blind for admissions, there should be no:
Ethnic club considerations
No mention of race in essays
No viewing of the name of applicants
Nothing to do with anything involving race
No 1rst generation consideration</p>
<p>It should be like Cal Poly SLO- Considered by a computer, only looking at grades and sat scores… Cal Poly has demographics that match the state= 70% white, 13% azn. and have NO consideration of outside factors. </p>
<p>Pretty much im only arguing against asians so whatever… Just whenever you guys see a white, black, or mexican person you should get on your knees and thank them for funding your education. </p>
<p>Cheers, Have fun at UCI (the biggest demographic joke in the country)</p>
<p>^Haha, you are so bitter, it’s ridiculous. Thank them for funding our education? We pay just as much as much tuition as others to attend college. </p>
<p>By the way, if the college system was like cal poly slo, with only grades and SAT, then wouldn’t that mean even MORE asians would attend the colleges. Most asians living in California apply to the UCs, I don’t know as many slo asian applicants as I do UC asian applicants.</p>
<p>Seeing that logic, people who apply for FAFSA and receive it should get on their knees and thank every body else in america who pays taxes for funding their education?</p>
<p>Seriously, that last comment was so ridiculous. </p>
<p>Your logic is so wrong and really makes no sense at all. I can honestly believe why you scored so poorly on the SAT. You are clearly not too bright…</p>
<p>Yeah, chupungryeong is such an idiot. “Your are an idiot” Totally…</p>
<p>Oop - Should families with the highest incomes receive preferential admittance to the UC’s because they pay more taxes than a family who has a lower income? That would be grossly unjust, but it is the same argument you are making, I just replaced race with income!</p>
<p>Im above the middle 50% in every catagory of the SAT. I guess your saying more than 50% of the people taking the SAT’s are complete idiots? That’d definitely be a pretty ignorant statement.</p>
<p>You obviously dont understand… For every student that attends a UC or CSU, the state has to pay for their education, regardless of which they pay full tuition or not. The UC’s and CSU’s are completely funded by the tax payers of California. Look at the California Budget, the public universities are a prominant part of it. </p>
<p>It’s true, people that get funding out of FAFSA should be extremely thankful.</p>
<p>How is my logic “so wrong that it makes no sense at all”, get specific. I think im clear about everything im bringing up… But I guess us sub 1800 sat’ers are obviously just idiots huh. Shooot I should have payed more attention in my Algebra 1 class, that way I wouldn’t be such an idiot. (tear…tear)</p>
<p>LOL, unfortunately I don’t check back at this thread every hour. Hand you the trophy for what? All you have shown is that you are highly sensitive about your SAT. As evidenced by your response to Ren. </p>
<p>Also, you ARE an idiot. I don’t even need to respond to your “tax payer” defense, because it has ALREADY been addressed. </p>
<p>Originally Posted by birdkiller
Just because a group accounts 70% of demographics in California does not mean they should receive the same proportion of services from public institutions. Instead, these public institutions run under whats best for every Californian regardless of their skin color. Assuming whites account for 70% of all tax revenues of the government, does that mean public schools from K-12 should have 70% whites as well? Does that mean 70% of all patients in public hospitals and clinics should be white? Does that mean 70% of all civil servants in California should be whites? Does that mean the National Guard of California should have 70% of its members being white?</p>
<p>I should mail you a brain, lol.</p>
<p>I’m not going to respond anymore, because it’s a waste of time reasoning with a tard like yourself. People have responded numerous times already and debunked your logic, yet you continue to persist in your reasoning. Good luck in life, you’re going to need it.</p>
One number. 209. Proposition. How much do you think ethnic clubs really help? Almost nothing. If you need the text… </p>
<p>
It’s pretty obvious now that affirmative action is gone.
OK let’s get this straight. Do we divide our country into little race blocks with white $$$ paying for “white people stuff” and Mexican $$$ to go “Mexican people stuff”? If Asians are going to college at higher rates than other groups, thats not their problem. They are utilizing the public education they get from the State of CA.</p>
</a>
Hey look! Only 4% of the Coast Guard is Asian. But California is 10% Asian so by your standards we should cut some other races to put in more Asians. Do you see how illogical this is? And an even bigger problem. California is only 60% white. So whites are ‘over-represented’ in the Coast Guard.</p>
<p>This poses an even bigger problem for your ‘taxpayer’ argument. What do you propose California do about this disparity in tax dollar usage? The younger generation has proportionally higher number of Hispanics than in the older one. Yet theyre the ones going to school and using up taxpayer dollars from an older, more white generation. How are you going to solve this? “Just whenever you guys see a white, black, or mexican person you should get on your knees and thank them for funding your education.”</p>
<p>I ask you for an answer because you still have not responded to my posts.</p>
<p>
There’s your problem. While people might get hurt at approximately the same rate based on race, whites, Asians, African-Americans, and Mexicans do not apply to college at the same rates.</p>
<p>Should we now only allow 12% of UCB to be Asian? Or 4% because that’s closer to the whole US? But wait, that means the admit rate for Asians will be about 1/3rd of that for whites. Do you think that’s fair? Two otherwise identical people apply to UCB. But because of a new Proposition 15 that requires 12% of all UCB to be Asian, and 60% to be white, while ~38% of applicants are Asian, and maybe 40% of applicans are white, will means it is about 4x harder for the average Asian student to get in. Maybe the most important thing you need to understand is that nobody chooses his or her race and therefore you should not be punished for it.</p>
<p>" wow this post just becomes
EVERYONE vs. Oop "</p>
<p>Your right, because pretty much everyone on this website is asian… It’s like the UC system lol…</p>
<p>To make things more fair, and demographically correct, I would change the application system…</p>
<ul>
<li>create a limit to how many places applicants can apply (2-3 sounds correct)</li>
<li>eliminate the application fee, so that applying could be more accessible to all people</li>
<li>eliminate the SAT2 system (its racist, there are basic spanish and chinese tests, where are the basic english tests???)</li>
<li>the state should also fund students to take the SAT test, so that not only the rich can take it 6 different times…</li>
</ul>
<p>Maybe then we would have numbers that match the demographics better… instead of asians just feasting on the UC System…</p>
The UC system is already doing that. But unfortunately for you (and fortunately for Californian students) none of your measures of action will suddenly make UCI 12% Asian, although the last would be a good idea except that right now is the last time anyone could successfully propose a new educational spending bill…</p>
<p>I agree with Oop with some measures like “eliminate the SAT2 system (its racist, there are basic spanish and chinese tests, where are the basic english tests???)”</p>
<p>because majority of these test takers are chinese or hispanic and its an easy 800 (come on 800 in chinese is like the 60th percentile)</p>
<p>and with “he state should also fund students to take the SAT test, so that not only the rich can take it 6 different times…”
ya cuz that test is effin expensive $44 ? wow </p>
<p>but i disagree with the first statement
“create a limit to how many places applicants can apply (2-3 sounds correct)”
if the applicant wants to spend $60/UC, $55/Cal state and $70/common app its totally up to them</p>
<p>:) Euphoria shooting through my veins, amby262roy you are litterally the last person I thought would agree with me… Maybe Shiomi and azndoufus can now join the bandwagon LOL</p>
