<p>I think these are all fabulous suggestions but I wonder how many parents “take over” when the application is due in the next hour? 
By “take over,” I mean doing a tad more editing than they would otherwise do in the absence of time pressure. My S knows he is a much better writer than I ever will be, but he is open to some suggestions. I’ve asked friends at work who don’t know him well (with S’ permission, of course) to read his draft essays and see if somehow they get to know the writer. I have gotten some great feedback by doing this.</p>
<p>Often you can’t effectively edit without sitting with the writer. (post #15) One of my best editing tricks is to have the student read the passage aloud, tell me how they think it sounds and ask them what they meant to convey. Spelling errors and the like can be handled electronically but voice and syntax are best refined and/or edited face to face.</p>
<p>I think it’s possible to take a middle course. I’m offended by rewriting, but not by modelling (once) a type of solution to a recurring problem. In general, though, when I did this with my kids, and it couldn’t be face-to-face, I either made longish, explanatory comments, or highlighted stuff with an “awk” or “sp” or “pronoun agmt” added.</p>
<p>As a semi-retired teacher and a semi-retired parent, I’m taking all of this in with great appreciation. Thank you and please continue to comment. It’s very helpful.
I’m figuring things out…</p>
<p>
This tactic would completely backfire with both of my kids. The more I push in one direction, the more likely they are to go in another.</p>
<p>That’s why I’m sometimes surprised when people talk about excessive parental input to the application or essays. My kids, and most teenagers I know, are stubborn like a bull when it comes to taking advice from parents. It’s one thing to make suggestions about colleges, or provide some general comments about essays. But I know that my kids would absolutely rebel if I took too much of a dictatorial role.</p>
<p>I’ve gotten a few critiques for essay critiques - I’ve been inspired to go back and look over them. Have I gone over the line. For the most part I don’t think I have, but one thing I did occasionally was to pull out one or two sentences from an otherwise good essay that seemed particularly awkward and give examples of how I would have written them. (Sometimes more than one example.) I’m not sure that changing one sentence in a larger essay is such a big crime. Or that it’s worse than telling someone to reorganize an essay or that doing something like complaining about a teacher might give a bad impression of them.</p>
<p>As to the concern here is that the essay should be in the student’s voice, ironically what I find is the most common problem student essays have is that they’ll write 90% of the essay in their voice and then suddenly will insert not quite appropriate words, or convoluted phrasing - something that doesn’t fit in with the rest of the essay.</p>
<p>P3t,</p>
<p>So many good points…reference books, reading a loud, modeling.</p>
<p>You are a thoughtful and well-considered poster. As Stickershock points out, I think you’ve already answered your own question. In my opinion, and as many have already pointed out, it is important that a proofreader not become a shortcut to the necessary work of good writing. It’s a great kindness to help a student view themselves as an emerging writer who can edit and re-work their own papers. All students applying to college can do this. It’s an essential skill. Please don’t shortchange those ‘aha’ moments just because “everyone’s doing it.” I know that is not your intention.</p>
<p>Mythmom’s modeling can be done online. In a five hundred word essay, close, line by line analysis of word choice, syntax, tense, voice and etc. is manageable. Having blown off their English teachers for whatever reason, the college essay may be the first time that some students learn to crack a writing reference book. The modeling that Mythmom refers to is the backbone of most writing reference handbooks. If you just underline or highlight a sentence with proofreader’s marks, they can look up the terms and see re-worked examples for themselves. </p>
<p>As others have mentioned, I love Strunk & White’s Elements of Style. I also like Ann Raimes’ Keys for Writers and Diana Hacker’s The Bedford Handbook. The Bedford is a well-worn favorite that went off to college with our oldest, and we bought a second copy for our younger S. Many writing tools are available for free online: [Bedford/St</a>. Martin’s–Exercise Central](<a href=“http://bcs.bedfordstmartins.com/exercisecentral/default.asp?uid=0&rau=0]Bedford/St”>http://bcs.bedfordstmartins.com/exercisecentral/default.asp?uid=0&rau=0). As a student, you don’t need an instructor to register. You just need an e-mail.</p>
<p>I still remember the first time I was required to use a writing reference book many years ago. I was ticked that no one had bothered to teach me these basic skills sooner. This does not take a lot of time. If the sentence is identified as passive voice. They look it up and learn how to re-work it. They can and should learn to do this.</p>
<p>I offer my experience as encouragement and not as a lecture. So many of you on CC are beautiful writers, and I imagine proofreading would be a challenge when it is far more efficient to simply edit and re-work the material yourselves. </p>
<p>FWIW, I always assumed the value of paid essay consultants and parents offering to read essays on CC is their expertise as informed audience members. I thought most were reading for content—helping authors check how well their meaning is conveyed or how well they conveyed a personal sense of themselves. I understand that grammatical construction may be a part of that, but a lesser one that students can manage themselves.</p>
<p>Still learning. Thanks all.</p>
<p>French students have a horrible and deserved reputation for cheating. I had not yet discovered CC when my daughter was doing her applications, and I didn’t know outside help was tolerated. So, trying to set a good example, I let her send in essays with faulty grammar (those prepositional verbs!) and some very gallic words although I was itching to do something about it.All in all, I have no regrets as the school that wanted her knew what they were getting. However, had I known, there would have been some serious rewriting.</p>
<p>So many good points. As 3ks points out, word processors pick up passive voice (I almost wrote “passive voice can be picked up by word processors.”) My D was always ignoring these suggestions until “use of active voice” showed up as part of a grading rubric. She was amazed (and so was I to an extent) how much of a difference active voice makes. It requires the discipline to be very specific about the subject of the sentence’s idea, and almost always results in a clearer statement.</p>
<p>So far, my editing assistance has involved comments on overall content and tone–posing clarifying questions rather than making corrections. I don’t comment on much else unless I see a glaring typo. For example, I suggested that he let more of his personality, point of view, and life experience shine through in one essay. He got it, and made some good improvements. HE made the improvements–not me.</p>
<p>Having said that, I’ll admit that in an ideal world, my answer to the OP’s question would be “none.” As an editor, I know everyone benefits from the feedback of another reader. But a college application essay is not the same as the kind of writing many of us do in our professional lives–writing that is enriched by others’ thoughts and contributions. It’s a piece of the whole person that admissions officers are attempting to evaluate, and it should be genuine and original. Too many students’ essays are processed to death by someone else. This trend makes me wonder about the value of essays in admissions. How do admissions officers know what’s real and what’s not?</p>
<p>I’m not trying to be harsh, and I’m sure this argument comes up often on CC. This is just one of several frustrations I have with the admissions process! (Don’t get me going on the sorry state of writing instruction in the schools, which is at the root of this problem.) Good thing I have an only child, because I don’t know whether I could do this again.</p>
<p>My kids wouldn’t let me near their essays.
I don’t know if ethics was the reason so much as their verbal skills are far superior to mine.</p>
<p>I think one way to give helpful feedback is to point to places where the writing is vague and over-generalized. When I read draft essays, I try to point out the fuzzy spots and suggest more precision. I can’t suggest particular revisions, because I don’t know what they really want to say, so this kind of feedback will not interfere with the writer’s voice. But it usually leads to good results - the essay has so much more punch when the writer has found just the right words to say what they want to say.</p>
<p>One of the best writing classes I took in college was a class where we had to write shorter and shorter pieces as the semester went on. The final exam was a literary analysis that limited us to writing one perfect paragraph. We had two weeks to work on it, so we had time to think about every word. It was fun and very satisfying.</p>
<p>Calreader: Well, Stephane Mallarme said the perfect poem is silence.</p>
<p>geezermom: You could. It’s like labor. We don’t remember quite how horrible it is until we are in the middle of it.</p>
<p>Just for the record: both my kids did their own essays. I don’t think their major essays required editing except for length. I did engage the help of a professional to explain to us what colleges want in these essays because I know writing but at the time I knew almost nothing about adcoms.</p>
<p>D’s essay opened: I am a dork.</p>
<p>S wrote about Star Wars. I don’t think adcoms had trouble understanding these ideas as products of teenaged brains.</p>
<p>However, I did edit and actually change some sentences for one of D’s friends who is a math/science person who revised her essay numerous times. The English teacher had no idea how to help the girl, so in desperation she asked D if I would look at it. My help involved taking out, not adding, words so the “essay” cohered. The result was very basic; I would have been disappointed if either of my kids had written this essay, but the essay did speak to some degree. I charged no money.</p>
<p>The piece had already been vetted by eleventh grade English teacher (assignment) and twelfth grade English teacher (as college admissions essay.)</p>
<p>BTW: This young woman also had SAT scores below the target of her number one choice, but she was admitted, weak essay and all, and she has done brilliantly in college.</p>
<p>I can understand the ethical lines most think I crossed; I felt I was rescueing a drowning girl. The essay was so bad, even with edits, that I doubt it helped her be admitted, but the young woman did not feel humiliated sending it off. I don’t know if she has learned to write in college.</p>
<p>I sit down with my kids and have them read their essays out loud-sentence by sentence. Then I ask them to write down what they really mean to say. I think if they hear their words, they’re more apt to use their own voice, get the tenses right etc. and use more active verbs. It would be nice if they’d do this on their own -hopefully they will learn that although tedious, it works.</p>
<p>Oh crumb Mythmom, did I just become my mother? Sorry, I wasn’t trying to lecture you or p3t. I bow down to both of you. Love your posts—much wisdom. </p>
<p>As a reformed citizen, I can be a one-note Nancy on issues of facilitating students. Believe me, my caution comes from experience. For me, the question about help remains, “Am I doing any damage?”</p>
<p>When my kids went from Montessori school to public school for Middle and High School, we had to adjust to the strengths and weaknesses of that system. Writing instruction was one of the weaker areas, so I offered to “help.” I’m a responsible and capable parent and understand the lines between helping versus doing. I was happily doing all my teachable moment type stuff. Now writing has always been a strength of my older S, yet with my help, it wasn’t long before he started giving me little more than rough drafts to proofread. Often at a late hour due to some time crunch. </p>
<p>I soon realized, to my horror, that I was creating a handicap. He was handling the in-class essays and assessments extremely well, but he was using my help as a shortcut on his longer assignments. While he never needed help with content, I could tell he was no longer even reading his work aloud or he would have clearly caught his mistakes. </p>
<p>I felt duped. This was 8th grade. HS was around the corner with more in-class essays, DBQ’s and the like, so I had to repair the damage. I put an immediate end to my “help.” </p>
<p>We took time for training…back to the whole Montessori model of facilitation. If my boys have a question, they have all the resources available to them to find their answers. I do provide a sounding board and help them be resourceful, but I haven’t proofread a paper for either of my boys since that time. We do talk about writing, ideas, arguments, and such. I ask lot’s of genuine questions because I’m interested in their ideas. But they are really getting along fine without my help; both of my boys are very good writers. </p>
<p>Can I even tell you how relieved I am to be out of that business? It’s hard not to help too much. I enjoy hearing about their papers. Older S called mid-week with great news and excitement about his recent paper. Younger S was sharing the difference between how he writes for his AP History DBQ’s versus the tone he adopts for his AP Language prompts. </p>
<p>This is so much more enjoyable. </p>
<p>Perhaps that helps. I was trying to be encouraging rather than laying out some ethical imperative. I’m not big on passing judgment about how any parent goes about this business.</p>
<p>(I’m really off CC now to get back to my project…just closing the browser!)</p>
<p>3Ks: I found nothing the least bit objectionable in your post(s). I think your caution is wise and important. You are one of those wise posters, too, and I’m sorry if my post came off as defensive. I was just trying to be clear, and the Stephane Mallarme quote? I just love those French symbolist poets.</p>
<p>You sound like you eventually found the perfect approach.</p>
<p>I would post more about my specific ideas and needs of my family, but I don’t think I’d interest anyone but myself.</p>
<p>Thanks for your insight.</p>
<p>3Ks, I know what you mean about the danger of a kid not getting beyond their own rough drafts. My oldest definitely had that tendency. He procrastinated paper writing so long they never went through as many drafts as I thought they should. I occasionally would get to see an earlyish draft. However, when I’d offer to proofread the final draft and he’d refuse to let me see it, because I might find something he ought to correct and he was sick of it. Not surprisingly, papers were what tended to bring down his grades. :rolleyes: BTW he’s still getting B’s on papers in college without any input from me at all.</p>
<p>I have helped many with essays for different purposes. </p>
<p>For college admission essays, I takethe line that the adcoms are more interested in learning about what makes the student tick than whether the student is a terrific writer or not. So I have given help to a larger extent that many on this thread would consider ethical, especially to foreign applicants. I do not suggest that applicants change their topic. I have friends who spent a great deal of time brainstorming with their kids what would be a good topic. I don’t really know how much this brainstorming shaped the eventual essay. To me, It seems a greater intervention than helping an applicant improve his or her style.</p>
<p>In essays that are not intended for applications, I consider both substance and style (that’s my French training; we used to be graded on both, and no quarters were given for a highly creative but badly spelled or structured essay). I find that telling someone that a word or sentence is awkward is not really helpful. The writer does not usually know that the word is not apposite or the sentence is vague or ill-structured. The writer needs more guidance than this to improve next time. So my comments might include:
“Is this word what you want to use here?” “Run-on sentence;” “How does this follow from the previous sentence?” “Where is your evidence?” “Have you explained what… is?” “This section does not belong here.” “You need a better transition.” “What is the relevance of this anecdote to your point?” “There’s too much going on in this essay.” And that’s not counting the misspellings, dangling modifiers, wandering apostrophes and other outrages.</p>
<p>Thanks to everyone for helpful comments. Although my posting concerned a neighbor with the one-time problem of a single essay, it is also interesting to hear what parents can do over time to improve their own children’s writing in partnership with the school. Some of the tips apply across both situations.</p>
<p>Marite: My approach is similar, although as I explained, on occasion I find I do have to actually rewrite sentences to illustrate my point.</p>