<p>Sorry to bug all you nice parents but this has been gnawing it me for a couple of days:</p>
<p>I was recently granted a scholarship toward a school that will pay full tuition for both my undergrad. and professional school. My family would only have to pay room and board, books, etc. Basically, as long as I maintain a 3.0, I get into professional school AND I don’t have to pay for it. Great deal, right? The only problem is, a lot of students really don’t like said school. The location is rural, and the freshman retention rate is only about 80% (apparently very Greek. I am planning to visit this school in a couple of weeks, but I know visits don’t necessarily “tell all.” Academically, this school has what I want and then some, but socially I’m not so sure.</p>
<p>I have been accepted into other schools with good merit scholarships and am a finalist for one scholarship program (very unlikely I’ll get it, however; I am by no meaning counting on it.) The latter school I have already visited and loved, but w/o scholarship money, it would be one of the most expensive of my choices. With the expection of FullTutionSchool, all of my top 3/4 (of which FTS is one) are tens of thousands more even with scholarshhip and no guarantee of professional school admission. I know a lot depends on the visit, but this is really beginning to get to me big time.</p>
<p>And they said the stress ended with admissions! Ha!</p>
<p>Congrads.
JMHO: Your attendence to any school is a “value decision,” not a monetary one. (read Roger Dooley’s essays in main section). </p>
<p>80% retention is not bad. </p>
<p>When all offers are in, use the offers as a bargaining tool towards the schools that you desire. </p>
<p>There are other threads/posts (emeraldkity/jmmom/northstarmom and others) will talk about the 3.0 rule and expand. Seek their posts and advice.
I just happen to post first.</p>
<p>“A lot of students really don’t like said school” should have no meaning, imho. A lot of students don’t like a lot of schools. What matters is how you like it. So let’s skip that criterion?</p>
<p>Evaluating based on the money is hard without the full financial picture - exactly what the COA will be for you at each school and how that jibes with your family’s financial picture.</p>
<p>How do your top 3/4 rank in your own mind? Where does the FTS school fall in your own personal rank order and how big a gap between it and the others? These are some of the things I would think about.</p>
<p>I wouldn’t think too hard about any of it until you have done the visit and have the full financial picture from each school.</p>
<p>I would second itstoomuch’s advice to use offers as a bargaining tool toward the school(s) you most desire.</p>
<p>When it comes down to crunch time, I will re-post the thread I started on “A Way to Decide” and that may help you. </p>
<p>Right now, give it time. Some parts (or all parts) of the decision may sort themselves out for you.</p>
<p>“The only problem is, a lot of students really don’t like said school. The location is rural, and the freshman retention rate is only about 80% (apparently very Greek. I am planning to visit this school in a couple of weeks, but I know visits don’t necessarily “tell all.” Academically, this school has what I want and then some, but socially I’m not so sure.”</p>
<p>The question, however is whether you like the school. Do you? A visit will help you discern that. Keep in mind, however, that no school is perfect nor is any college loved by 100% of its students.</p>
<p>A) 80% freshman retention rate is fine - to me that says a few people are put off by the location, Greek, etc and leave, but there isn’t a large contingent who blow off classes to the point that they flunk out - most kids are at least somewhat serious about academics.</p>
<p>B) I know that it is next to impossible, but the other parents are correct - try to not worry until all the info is available.</p>
<p>C) I know from your other posts that you have some health concerns - if the free ride school does not adequately address those needs, then that is another thought to put into the mix - if your dorm room is unusually isolated, or difficult to access, it may be worth it to you to go to one of the more expensive schools.</p>
<p>D) Greek may not be what you think and every school has groups of people who don’t fit the mainstream “view” of the school. How hard will it be to find those people? My DD is at a party hearty Greek school - and she has found out that she can find friends and have fun without drinking, there are aspects of being at a school with lots of school spirit that she likes, and that she has enough self-esteem to look at the Greek system and maybe rush, maybe not - she doesn’t “have” to do it.</p>
<p>Wolfpiper, I just read your post on another thread - you are getting full tuition for both undergrad and prof school??? This is a reputable, accredited prof school in this field??? I’m sorry if I sound dumbfounded and skeptical, but if the prof school is at all a decent school, this is an incredible opportunity. Paying a few extra thousand for an experience that you think at this point may be better (remember, you never really know until you get to college) is one thing, but graduating completely debt-free with all your prof training paid for is a real gift. </p>
<p>Graduating without those encumbrances will allow you to choose what area of the country and what type of job you take without too many considerations for money - that will impact all the rest of your life, not just the 5-8 years of schooling. I would think long and hard about this one.</p>
<p>I know wolfpiper was interested in PharmD, so if he’s getting full tuition for a PharmD, then he is getting money for undergrad and professional school.</p>
<p>Let’s see-- 6-8 years almost free at a place that may only turn out to be so-so vs. a 30-40 years career in your profession. In the long run which matters?</p>
<p>IMO, I would take the free ride sure thing. If you like it there, great. If you are not satisfied with your experience, you can always go elsewhere. If indeed your interest is in pharmacy, most schools don’t even accept your application until you have finished 2 years of undergrad. That should be plenty of time to form an opinion based on your personal experience.</p>
<p>There is no guarantee that any place you pick will be perfect, and you should not count a school out because some students don’t like a particular place.</p>
<p>To clarify:
The tuition covers both undergrad and professional school (students are admitted to all 6 years as freshman). This is actually quiet a common practice in pharmacy, and the pharm. school itself seems to have a pretty good reputation (accredited, etc.).</p>
<p>Merit aid is pretty much non-negotiable from most of my schools (cash-straped state schools) and need-based aid is out of the realm of possibly when you aid in the merit awards I’ve receives. I’ve had to pretty much discount two of my safetish state schools due to the high, high out of state costs (forntunately, they weren’t my top choices to begin with). My top 3/4 (excluding FTS) all fall in a range that is reasonable for my family but not cheap.</p>
<p>I’ve talked to current students at FTS, some who like it and some who don’t. Their complaints are pretty consistant (drinking, suitcase school, rural), making me think that these really are common problems and also a couple of my concerns.</p>
<p>I know that this isn’t the ideal - but I say take the money and run. Unless your parents can truly foot the bill, it is such an advantage to you to be debt-free. Also, you are already accepted to the pharm program - that is something to consider as well.</p>
<p>Usually I would argue more for fit, but not with this one. You are in a similar situation to a HS classmate of DD’s. This young man is not a partier, much more the studious, quiet type. He has always wanted to be a vet and was accepted to a direct entry vet program at a neighboring state college with some merit (in state tuition rate, I believe). He could have gone to the in-state college with a more prestigious vet school, but he would have had to apply separately to vet school. Both schools are big party atmosphere, which is not his thing, but he has found that he enjoys the atmosphere more than he thought, and is too busy with classes to worry overly about the atmosphere - he has his eye on the future, and gets to do some vet -related things while he is there.</p>
<p>His parents could have afforded any of his schools, but they are now socking away some of the tuition money to help him set up practice in a few years. The plan for him is more important than the current environment.</p>
<p>I speak from experience here, having two Pharmacists in the family (sister and sister-in-law)…go to the full-paid school and save the money. No disrespect intended, but Pharmacy is one of the only professions I know of where each and every graduate who passes the state bar exam is worth the same as each and every other one. The only slight differences are regional cost-of-living kickers, and whether you’re “retail” or “hospital”. All employers hate to pay the wages, but they have to do it, and once you’re employed, you will find that your pay increases are based on one thing – whenever a new hire comes in they have to pay the new hire more than they’re paying current employees, so everyone in the department gets a raise to bring the current staff in-line with the new hire wage. If no new hires come in, wages stagnate.</p>
<p>Enjoy the profession until you’re right-sized by a computerized dispenser - this is already being tested in HI and CA, and I expect the trend to sweep the nation. You’ve got Pharmacists in K-Mart earning $85K while the store manager only makes about $50K. These types of employers spit every time they have to write the paycheck, and I personally see Pharmacy as the profession “most likely to suffer a collapse” in the next couple decades. Computerization will largely wipe it out, since there will be a singular national clearinghouse for prescription conflict checking, therefore, the traditional counseling and arbitration roles of the pharmacist will be completely replaced by the computer. The only real question is whether pharmacists will be required to fill the bins in the computerized dispenser. Not sure how that’s being done on the test systems now being deployed. My sister is 50 so I’m confident she’ll finish a career, and even my sister-in-law at 28 will possibly make it through. At your age, I’d be wary of any dispensing role and try to maneuver into R&D or some other position removed from dispensing.</p>
<p>Final thought – Pharmacy was once a four-year degree – one reason it’s now much longer is to extend and discourage the pipeline throughput, and to keep wages up due to continued personnel shortages. They are calling the degree a “Pharm-D” doctoral degree simply because no sane person would toil so many years without receipt of the doctorate. But again, the wage prop is ultimately going to be the undoing of the profession.</p>
<p>SORRY as I know you didn’t ask for this, but it’s a subject I follow, and I thought you might benefit from some of my observations.</p>
<p>We visited a 'rural school" (cow town) last week and my son (surprisingly) loved it. The school is surrounded by “college hangouts” (bars, pizza places, burger places, ice cream, Starbucks, etc so it really had a college “feel” but it was a very safe environment - virtually no crime.</p>
<p>The hospital pharmacy where I work has had a dispensing robot for many years (we were a pilot hospital), and we have more pharmacists and technicians now than ever. </p>
<p>What has this done to the work flow? Technicians are assigned to robot maintenance throughout the day. Pharmacists are freed up to do tasks that are more clinically oriented, thus making better use of their education. And because a robot is dispensing instead of a human, the number of dispensing errors has gone way down. The pharmacy is now better able to serve its customers (patients and medical staff) by offering expanded services. </p>
<p>Is my job substantially different than it was 25 years ago. Absolutely. But it is certainly for the best. I think that the increase in pharmacy education from 5+ years to 6+ years parallels the pharmacists’ changing role in health care. I think that anyone who enters the pharmacy profession will have no problem at all finding a wealth of job opportunities in many areas of health care in any region they wish to practice.</p>
<p>I was told last week by college admin advisor that Pharmacists will be doing more and more “consultations” with clients. that seems to go along with what lkf reports.</p>
<p>From my (admittedly limited) research, jobs for RETAIL pharmacists (the ones who work at places like Kmart and CVS) are likely to see some downsizing. However, job opportunities for clinical pharmacists, especially those with some research experience, are predicted to boom. </p>
<p>It’s a matter of demographics combined with scientific advancement: the baby boomers are going to be the largest group of “old people” in history, and that will mean more demand for medical services in general including pharmacists to consult on drug and treatment issues. Plus, advances in pharmaceutical research are likely to result in the need for more specialized pharmacy services to deal with the resulting complexity of treatments. There is, also, research out there showing that many pharmacists already in the field don’t have the sort of specialized education necessary to handle these new developments, and at least one pharmacy industry journal noted that there are more pharmacists getting ready to retire in the next few years than there are coming out of pharmD. programs. Add in the growing demand for pharmaceutical researchers, marketers and salespeople, and there should be plenty of pharmacy and related-jobs for folks who have Pharm D degrees. I don’t think a PharmD is going to be a deadend at all; in fact, I think with proper planning and good education, it will be a valuable degree in the years ahead. But again, that’s just based on my limited research into the field.</p>
<p>Yes, no money in the world can compensate if you really hate that place but be realistic- there are no perfect school waiting for you. Getting your education free and clear is biggest gift you could have received.
Visit, if you need visit more than once.
Regarding future pharm jobs- it is very hot field now- there plenty of openings in retail and and hospitals. It is pretty complicated science now and it is bound to become even more complicated with future research and longevity of present population. It is of course possbile to overproduce certain specialists but it is possible in almost any field so I would not worry about it. Pharmacist at hospital can not be reduced to computer work- as much as computer programs getting more sofisticated, it takes more than dispensing to do the job.</p>
<p>Imagine if someday, you get a “debit like card” from your doctor with a mag strip on it that has your prescription(s) on it. You go to an ATM-like dispensing machine, swipe your insurance card, swipe your real debit card for co-payment, swipe the prescription card from the doctor and out pops your meds? Too far fetched? I don’t know. ( Maybe for some types of meds but not for others )</p>
<p>Dear Carolyn and LFK-thanks for your comments. You have both covered most of what I would say.
I think that pharmacists usually do not go around marketing/promoting themselves and so the average person doesn’t have a clue. They (pt)would only be concerned when they swipe their magnetic card for demerol when the the prescriber forgot they were on a MAO inhibitor. Or, when they are overloaded on gingko and start coumadin after they tell their doctor they don’t take anything.
Unfortunately, all you need is a license and it doesn’t matter if you are number 1 or dead last-you will find a place to hire you. I do think that you can succeed if you graduate from any US school.</p>