After visiting all these schools and narrowing them down to 2…I am at an impasse. I liked Williams and Bowdoin but just didn’t feel it socially. Tulane would probably be my first choice, but it is either 5k or 10k more in loans than the 2 I have narrowed it down to. I like the University of Arizona with its brand new Honors College and Village and Washington & Lee with its intimate classes almost equally for different reasons. Here is my question: Arizona is 5k cheaper than W&L…Is the prestige of W&L worth the extra 5k a year?
FYI - I will be happy at either Arizona or W&L, but I don’t want to miss out on the prestige of W&L if it is very important for my future. I am not solidly firm on a major, but I like biology research, math, and political science.
Any and all feedback is appreciated.
How much is your COA per year for each school?
Are you already borrowing money or would Arizona be debt free while W&L would mean a debt of $20,000 total?
Are travel costs to/from similar?
Full stop. It’s like fine art. Prestige has to make you happy.
How do you measure the prestige difference?
Prestige per se may not be worth much, even if we’re only talking about the financial return of attending a more selective/prestigious college. At least, that is what some research findings suggest. Example:
https://www.nber.org/papers/w17159
In case you’re talking about USNWR rankings, then do you care about the kinds of differences USNWR measures?
For example, one of their ranking factors is class size, which you do mention.
Is that difference worth $5K to you? Enough to justify earning it yourself on a summer job or work-study?
Is it not outweighed by any advantage/preference in Arizona’s favor?
For some people, the value of school prestige may be more psychological than financial. Maybe it would boost your self-esteem to be able to say you graduated from a highly selective college. However, you already can tell yourself you were admitted to several of them. And in many parts of the country, W&L’s name recognition may not be very high.
On the other hand, after a decade or so, assuming you are successful enough to pay off the loan, you may not miss the extra $20K too much. So I wouldn’t necessarily make that price difference a deciding factor, either … assuming it’s not on top of a big pile of other debt (see previous post).
@txstella Arizona loan debt is 5k and W&L loan debt would be 10K. The travel expenses are similar so no prob there.
@circuitrider I understand. If it was all about Prestige then Williams or Bowdoin would still be in play. I’m just trying to get people’s opinions if prestige is worth 5k more a year. When you visit, all the schools make it seem like the network connections alone are priceless.
@tk21769 I am thinking along the lines of the school connections of the Prestige University. Is there really a difference in having the network in getting employment or acceptance to a grad school later in life?
$10k loans per year would require parent loans or cosigned loans.
In terms of general college prestige, the conventional wisdom is that it is most important in a few employment areas, like management consulting and Wall Street, but less so in some others, like nursing and engineering.
In terms of admission to PhD programs, those in some subject areas may be sensitive to departmental prestige, which can be considerably different from overall school prestige. Departmental prestige may have some effect on recruiting for some employment areas, like engineering and computing.
I loved my time at Arizona in the Honors Program. Ended up being fairly prestigious as I won a Truman Scholarship and went to UVA Law, made Law Review, and wound up at a prestigious DC firm. My only point being, the extent to which you succeed in college depends more on your efforts than the school itself. Arizona, as a large state flagship research university, brings in a huge number of students from across a greater academic spectrum. So not everyone’s numbers are amazing. But the top students, faculty, research, and honors coursework are pretty exceptional. If you decide to go there, make the most of it. And get in line for student basketball tickets! Number one recruiting class in the country!!
The schools are just so different. IMO you cannot really go wrong attending an affordable state flagship. BUT if you haven’t, I think you should contact both Tulane and W&L and explain you’d like to attend but can’t afford the EFC. I realize this is a long shot, and you probably won’t get more aid. Has anything changed financially for your parents?
Make sure you are comparing apples to apples as far as costs. Some schools seems to pad the COA a bit.
Also, will your parents take out loans in excess of the $27,000 in total that you are allowed to borrow? If not, then Arizona is your affordable option.
You will do well at Arizona but I do understand your dilemma.
Txstella gives good advice. Make your case for a little bit more financial aid to your top two choices and see if one of them bites. My two cents: I am far from a rich person, but $5000-$10,000 a year does not seem like a lot of money in the whole scheme of things if it enables you to attend the college of your choice and, as a result, be happy you are there from the get go. Undoubtedly you will get other opinions, some of them contrary to the one I just gave, but at the end of the day you have to own your decision. That’s an important part of the maturation process, so you might as well start now. Best of luck to you!
@txstella I did ask my Tulane admissions rep and financial aid officer for a review over a week ago and haven’t heard back. I thought it was weird but either they are busy or don’t care so I have moved on. The W&L aid package was so good compared to all others I thought it would be rude to even ask.
@NJDad68 I was thinking the same thing about the additional cost. That’s exactly why I made this post to get other views that I haven’t thought of to make an informed decision.
Is health insurance included in your W&Laid package? If it is a cost, can you get a waiver for this amount if you are insured under your parents’ plan? Just a thought.
I agree that when you amortize it over the course of one’s life choosing a college that costs $5 to $10k more per year b/c it’s the better fit is a valid choice. But if you feel like it’s splitting hairs between the two colleges, maybe the money is a deciding factor for you. I would feel differently if was a lot more money differential in which case I’d say go with the state option.
So while you could be happy at AZ – do you see yourself happier at W&L? Do you want to be closer to the East Coast? Does one allow you to spread your wings and get out of your comfort zone more? Spend time researching courses and bios of profs and envision your path at both schools. Which feels better or more right?
As a side note, my D was looking at LACs last year and also didn’t like the social vibe of several of the northeastern ones she visited.
It is not $5k more it is $20k over 4 years.
Given that interest will be paid on this money it is not meaningless.
W&L does have a very high fraternity and sorority presence. Is that a plus or minus for you?
Arizona and W&L are polar opposites in almost every way. IMO, you need to ask yourself what type of 4 year college experience do you want?
W&L is a private, LAC, has only 1,800 undergrads, all the student body is smart but lacks diversity (mostly rich, white) and very conservative. Ranked #36 best colleges in america.
University of Arizona, large public university, 30,000 undergrad, great school spirit and D1 athletics, 84% acceptance rate and has a reputation of a party school. Very diverse ethnically and financially and will be much more liberal, progressive than W&L. It does have an honors college which you will be around your academic peers but the student body as a whole will not be the best and brightest academically driven students. Ranked #200+ best colleges in america.
At the end of the day you need to be happy with the college choice as these 4 years are so important to the development of you becoming an adult.
Good luck!
I agree with @socialdad2002 and am wondering if you should put Tulane back on the table. In many ways it falls in the middle between these two very different colleges so it might be just want you’re looking for.
As someone suggested, asking them for a little more aid is a reasonable thing to try…but time is running short! I think your outreach would need to say that you were willing to commit if they could off XXX and match the offer you have from W&L. They probably see it as a peer college so it might work… So, obviously, only do this is you’d be willing to commit to Tulane if it were same price as W&L.
I don’t know anything about Arizona, but I do know that W&L has a very strong alumni network and career services is quite strong as well. That can be an important factor in choosing a school.
There is another Thread in College Search & Selection called Full Ride Rutgers vs Full Ride W&L. Sorry, but I’m not sure how to link it, but its currently on page 3. Go to the end and read about the classroom visits the student made to both colleges and his reaction. Have you/can you make another visit to both and stay overnight and attend classes? It might help you decide. Or maybe you have already done that…
My daughter was deciding between W&L and a college with 8000 students. Her experience when she stayed overnight was almost exactly what @Penguin23 described. She now attends W&L and the college continues to be exactly as he described - amazing academics, great caring professors, very friendly student body who love their school.
What don’t you feel about Williams and Bowdoin?
In terms of alumni networks and career services, they would be up there.
Keep in mind that for a motivated upper-middle-class go-getter, where he/she goes to college likely won’t make much of a difference in outcomes, but for a lower-SES or URM kid who isn’t already socially connected or have parents who can help out a lot financially, the rich private elites do seem to make a difference, opening up worlds that they didn’t even know existed.