@twoinanddone - hardly anyone from my high school class at our local university branched out. Most of them stuck together like glue and socialized off-campus, although one girl moved into the dorms for a while and a couple of boys joined fraternities. I was the only girl who joined a sorority. Lots of commuters came to campus for class and left immediately after for off-campus jobs. Most of them identified with their jobs more than school. Even a lot of kids who lived on campus went home almost every weekend (I wanted to smack them around!) Interestingly, most of my HS classmates who commuted to college sent their kids away.
Since they went to college, they are more likely to be at the SES level now that they can afford to send their kids to away schools.
Most of our parents, including mine, were at the SES level that they could send their kids away. They just opted not to. There was a university in town and there was no reason for it, in their minds. That’s why my hometown is so insular - people cling very tightly to their children and nobody ever leaves! My dad even told me after I graduated that he spent more on my sorority costs than he did on actual college. He might have saved money in the long run had I gone away, but he was willing to absorb that cost to keep me where he could stalk me easily.
My H was born and raised in a different country. He was surprised to learn so many kids go away to college here in this country, sometimes far away. He said where he grew up, the expectation was kids lived at home and commuted to the nearest university (and in general, did not move out of the parents home until married).
When one of our kids went away to South America on exchange in HS, the host family’s older kids, one in college, one in law school, still lived at home and commuted.
I did point out yes, different cultures, but also H and the host family were living in very large major cities, with universities easily accessible by efficient public transportation systems.
It did take some time for him to get used to the idea of the kids going away, but off they went!
@ucbalumnus , I think I acknowledged pretty early on that tuition has outpaced real income.
Still, I don’t think it’s as simple or as categorical as it sometimes comes off here on CC. It is, or can be, a function of a lot of things in addition to, or in lieu of, being a superstar student who can get Pomona or Cornell to pay for everything: how much savings lower income parents have, other sources of help (local scholarships, extended family, etc.) and a reasonable amount of debt.
Anyway, I see a variety of things. To me, a suburban cop and his substitute teacher wife are people who I wouldn’t score as having a lot of disposable income given where in the country they live. I think many here would be surprised by how even $100k “feels” in Seattle. I’m originally from Miami, and still spend time there with family. $100k here feels like $50k there.
Sometimes I wonder where the COL data comes from and who’s collecting it. I included not an ounce of hyperbole when I wrote the other day that $1/2 million doesn’t buy much of anything in the Seattle metro area in terms of housing. So someone making that $100 to $150 does not have a lot of flexibility in terms of their real disposable income. I think it’s harder for them than you might expect.
And, please, everyone, don’t get me wrong. If living at home is the only way to make it happen, then that’s what you have to do to make it happen.
My main point was that going away, and certainly living on campus wherever you are, are positive and important aspects of the college experience, and it’s shame for any kid to have to miss out on it. People who have to live with that limitation might not like hearing it, but it doesn’t make it any less true.
This discussion has deteriorated into what people “should be able to do,” and that focus is misplaced. I think the CC cohort could go round and round on that all day, which I’m not interested in doing.
Seems like you would say that it is a shame that most college students have to miss out on that part of the college experience because it is financially inaccessible to them and their families.
@ucbalumnus , not sure your last post added anything meaningful. If it’s a shame, it’s a shame. I don’t think it’s less of a shame a given scenario shared by another poster that involves a controlling father who doesn’t want his kid to leave home/town even though he could afford it.
I’m probably a bit more mindful or sensitive now to the reality that many people can’t afford that advantage having had this exchange with you. Happy to acknowledge that if it means something to you. I still do not think it’s as black and white, as categorical, or as simple, as you seem to posit based on blunt macro statistics. There are often other factors that affect the outcome.
And is it “most”? Or is there a sizeable cohort who aren’t loaded, aren’t being chased by the Ivy League, and who also attend, say, schools like Willamette University, schools which usually tap out at about 80% of demonstrated need (including school loans)? A cohort who manages that opportunity with perhaps some combination of local scholarships/parent savings/their own summer savings/other family contributions, etc.? Your examples were to cite median income statistics, make no adjustment for where they live, and surmise that paying it would be “basically all of their income.” Well, nobody really does that, and yet not every kid at Puget Sound is, I promise you, wealthy.
Here is California, total undergraduate enrollment at the primarily residential UCs is 210,170, according to https://www.universityofcalifornia.edu/infocenter/fall-enrollment-glance . Total undergraduate enrollment at the primarily commuter CSUs is 423,301, according to http://www.calstate.edu/as/stat_reports/2016-2017/f_16toc.shtml .
This does not include students at California community colleges (who are primarily commuter) who will eventually transfer to UC or CSU. Based on transfer numbers (about 32,000 to UC and 58,000 to CSU per year), there are around 90,000 full-time-equivalent transfer-prep students at community colleges per year, or about 180,000 total full-time-equivalent transfer-prep students since it typically takes two years of full time attendance before transfer. Due to part time attendance, the actual number of students currently attending who will eventually transfer is likely to be greater.
Of course, there are also private colleges and universities, many of which are more likely to be residential. However, most of these have small enrollments compared to UCs and CSUs.
^ but isn’t that what we’re talking about … either leaving to go out of state, or private anywhere, or in-state public living on campus or through university housing?
seems like you’re missing the key data point. I don’t know what the total denominator is, much less can I start culling through it and make categorical assignments based on income tests.
nobody here, me included, is saying that your basic proposition is inaccurate, or even misleading. what I am saying, at least, is that the picture of “can do it/ can’t do it” is not infrequently a little incomplete, especially when based on census numbers and basic tuition and financial aid information.
as one of probably hundreds of scenarios, you have someone making 75 in a town with a very low COL, maybe they own their house outright by the time junior is ready to go off to school, maybe, as another poster said, they have a DC benefit waiting for them. maybe grandparents chip in a little. maybe they won a Rotary scholarship. maybe they’ve been working in the summer and saving. maybe their parents have been saving. maybe they’re going to take on some debt. maybe all of those things.
I’m telling you, because I know them, that there are people in those situations sending their kids to, e.g., University of Puget Sound, a private LAC that doesn’t have the endowment to meet full demonstrated need, and of the need they do meet, they include some loans, some free money and some work study.
I’m sure your example is the much more common one, but I don’t think everyone sits around, accepts that they only make $60 k a year, and tells their kid go to an in-state and live at home. I also don’t think those people are all maxing credit cards to make the other happen happen either.
To me the option to live away at college is a pipe dream for most kids. If the median income is around $60K then there are plenty of kids below that with even less cash.
If one wants to double the median to $120K then we are possibly talking about attending a local instate city school. Even a state flagship might be out of reach.
The extra $60K needed to have a student live in the dorms is a luxury that most cannot afford. I do understand that there are plenty of people who feel differently and will have their kids take out a 10 year student loan to buy a cheeseburger and fries but to my financial thinking, that is not a very good plan.
The rich people in the top 20% can sent their kids off to school. The other 80% usually have to borrow deep for that cheeseburger and fries. Just the way it is.
While I’m sure some people have rich grandparents willing to pay for college, I assume if that was the case they wouldn’t be coming on here for advice on how to afford college. Knowing someone lives in a low cola area or even has a cheap paid off house doesn’t mean they have a high net worth. Net worth is the most important measure of whether someone is on track for retirement.
^rich? Lol.
So only “rich” family members are able to contribute? Ha! Ok. Whay bout something from said impoverished grandparents coupled with other sources like parent savings? Can People save for their kids to go to college? Is everyone you know impoverished? Jesus.
My point is that multiple sources of help coupled with reasonable debt can make it happen where financial aid for whatever reason isn’t 100%.
But then again, I live in a bubble and think everyone makes 150k so what do I know.
I wonder how I could be so clueless and still managed to find my way into that bubble in the first place.
@MassDaD68 your modeling does not reflect where I live. People from all over Wahsington state send their kids to UW. @$120k? Oh yeah; easily. You make $120k living outside of the greater Seattle area and you are doing pretty well here. In Seatle is another matter altogether.
Happy to concede this one; we’re all just repeating ourselves at this point anyway. At the end of the day it’s not even remotely my problem. So I have no skin in the game. I made sure I had what I needed, or could generate what I needed, to educate my kids before I had them.
@Corbett Very interesting survey, but not too terribly shocking. Most of the schools are ivy or near ivy, coastal, military academy, or top music programs. All things I would travel for!