Right now, tuition at 4 year public colleges is beyond the reach of students to fund without parental help. I believe this is an unfair situation that holds kids hostage to their parents’ ability and willingness to pay. I believe that students should be able to borrow the full amount to fund public college – but how much should that be? Assuming the fedearl loan limits were adjusted to account for the real cost of 4 year college, what would be an appropriate tuition? What is a reasonable debt for a young person to take on to pay for the benifit of a college degree?
It should be free, like it is in Germany and much of the rest of the developed world.
Nothing wrong with going to a community college for 2 years, live at home, and work part-time to save up some money and transferring to a 4 year state college. There are options to reduce the cost of getting 4 year degree.
Parents also should be putting some money away for college when they start having kids so that 100k? needed for public college is not such a big hit. They can also apply to colleges that give great discounts for a college education (merit chase).
In addition and IMO, way too many kids in this country go to college and either drop out or get meaningless degrees instead of actually learning a trade that would better suit their skill sets and passions.
“In addition and IMO, way too many kids in this country go to college and either drop out or get meaningless degrees instead of actually learning a trade that would better suit their skill sets and passions.”
Agreed.
In the Germany example, many students are not tracked for college. IMO, the US needs to do a better job of educating HS students on different pathways.
Also in Europe, students typically live at home while attending college, and don’t have the astronomical R&B costs.
Comparing US and Germany/many EU colleges is apples vs. oranges. There are many differences that directly impact costs:
-Generally no dorms in German colleges—students live at home or an apartment with other students
-Generally no athletic facilities, or athletic teams in EU/German colleges
-German college average class sizes are larger than in the US
-German/EU colleges have far fewer student support initiatives, in areas like academics/tutoring and mental health.
- German/EU colleges have far fewer administrators because there are no dorms, athletic facilities/teams, and student support services.
-Many EU colleges are only 3 years (6 semesters) as opposed to 4 years in the US.
I do agree that in many states the cost of college is beyond the reach of many students/families. On the other hand, 2 years in CC is an option. Also, many states have directional colleges that are affordable, but unappealing for many, who are often too focused on rankings. I think the $27K in student loans is doable, but would not recommend more debt than that.
@Aspiringacademic Most Americans would be quite upset with a higher education system such as you find in Germany. But yes, it’s sort of free.
I have always maintained that IN GENERAL you can get a college degree in the US without spending a fortune. There is the community college/state u route.
But it does bother me that many flagship universities are becoming not affordable. Where I live, close to 30K per year. A family with two kids now has to plan on paying a quarter of a million dollars to send their kids to the state flagship.
That’s not right. But it’s also not the only option.
I agree, same in Illinois @katliamom UIUC is around $32K for most.
So, then maybe a solution is that tuition should be free, but colleges can charge varying amounts for the social life amenities, such as dorms, athletics, health services, etc. I think that’s a great solution. I’d love to form a college that doesn’t offer health services, has no athletics or clubs but requires community service, has spartan dorms, and hires excellent faculty.
In terms of public education, I think it should somehow be pegged to the median income of the state, so that the cost of college never exceeds 25% of the median income, or something like that. I am just grabbing that 25% number out of thin air, and would love to see some economists come up with a number that makes sense. When the cost of a year of college is half of the median income, as it is for the UCs relative to CA’s median income, for example, it really makes that inaccessible for the middle class.
I don’t disagree. But that’s not what many students/parents want…they want the ‘full college experience’ and for many that revolves around big sports, the comfort of the dorms, and the amenities—sometimes with lazy rivers included.
What you describe sounds like some community colleges, at least in my state, where they are very good—even with excellent faculty—and yet, many look down upon that option and if they have to go that route feel like they have failed or underachieved.
Tuition isn’t “free” anywhere. If there is no charge to the student, the general taxpayer is paying for it. Many of the countries where tuition is “free” have much higher personal tax rates than the US. So the argument should be more like - do we think strongly enough that college should be free that we are willing to pay more in tax every year for that?
(I do think US college costs are ridiculous, even taking into account the differences in what is provided vs other countries. But let’s also compare apples with apples.)
@ccprofandmomof2 “In terms of public education, I think it should somehow be pegged to the median income of the state, so that the cost of college never exceeds 25% of the median income, or something like that”
I think that’s a very reasonable idea. The state I live in 30K per year is A LOT for a lot of people. We’re a weak-union state and the salaries are lower here than on either coast.
@Mwfan1921 The community colleges in CA spend a very large portion of their budgets on the student affairs side of the campus, not the academic affairs side. (In fact, student affairs and administrative budgets seem to continually grow, whereas faculty struggle for basics in the classroom and adjunct pay is so bad that some adjuncts are functionally homeless.) CCCs offer full scale health centers, social workers, etc. I’m not against that, since no one else in society seems to adequately provide those services, but I do wonder what America would look like if we had our higher ed institutions just do higher ed, and had an adequate health care system and social services system to help people with those needs. I think the taxpayers would actually feel better about paying for higher ed if the costs were more focused just on the education and less on the student services.
Whatever is the cost, it should be equal for every citizen. Applicants shouldn’t be judged by the color of their skin, income of their parents or anything beyond a person’s control. There should be a small tax on future income for everyone benefiting from subsidized education. As an incentive to do well, good students should get first pick at colleges and majors of their choice.
Also, CC’s don’t typically have dorms, so students aren’t able to focus just on their education. Most CC students live at home and don’t get to focus on their education in the same way that students in residential colleges do.
How about a sliding scale?
Spend a couple of minutes looking at income tax in Germany, SS, health care contributions. Nothing, nothing is free. It is not difficult to be in a 42% income tax bracket (progressive) and 7% for health insurance. These sorts of places are good to be poor, but not middle or higher income.
A key point, if you want to hold up a European system as a model. The German college-track prep school/HS is called the Gymnasium. Other students attend either Realschule or Hauptschule, which are vocationally-oriented. A student needs good grades to be accepted into a public, state-funded Gymnasium.
And at a young age, so they are separated at about 10, a bit like the UK grammar school 11 plus. I took and passed the 11 plus in the UK and I can tell you me and my parents didn’t even know what it was, let alone prepped for it (as it would happen today) .
Whatever the cost, imo, the answer isn’t “fedearl loan limits…adjusted to account for the real cost of 4 year college.” Even 6.5k/year would be nearly what fed loans are now and a burden for poorer kids.
If we’re being hypothetical, I might tie it to the student’s ability to work their way through. Maybe 20 hours/week, at work study rates, on campus or sponsored off campus. Maybe a reduced courseload. Graduating could take longer, but there’s companion resume experience, at least one year relevant to their work goals (or something marketable, not kitchen help.)
The problem is, just making the cost universally low only advantages kids whose parents can pay, no sweat. The rich stay richer.
I’d seriously go to no frills. Dorms, if any, need to be basic. Etc.