How much will a bad 1st semester junior year hurt me for MIT/Stanford/Princeton/Caltech/Cal?

Chance Me / Match Me
1

Hey guys. A few weeks back I was on these forums freaking out because of my crappy first semester junior year and how it made my gpa in class rank go down the toilet. My current 10-11 uw gpa is a 3.63 gpa. This is due to 2 A’s, 3 B’s, and 1 C (AP physics because of an awful start and a harsh teacher) this semester. I know a downward trend with an increase in rigor is bad since it shows you can’t handle higher level work, but I don’t really have a donward trend. In addition to high school, I’m earning A’s in advanced online community college math courses and doing graduate level math research under a highly respected professor. This semester is off to a great start. I’ve had a test in every class and most of my grades are around 95 at the moment. I got a 93 on my first physics test this semester, and have a 97 in the class. Last semester I was his worst student but this semester I’m his best student. I also took the subject test and got a 790, which I’m a bit upset about, but I can always retake. Though I might get a B in Spanish this semester. I got a 28/100 on the first test and have a 76 in the class right now. The lowest test is dropped, but I’ve never gotten above a 70 on any Spanish test. I’m not too concerned about the B per se, especially because of the subject it’s in, but I am concerned about it affecting my gpa. If I get a B in Spanish, I’ll have a 3.68 10-11 gpa without community college classes and a 3.75 with them. Otherwise, I’ll have a 3.73 and 3.78 with cc classes. The thing is my gpa is below average for many selective EECS/CSE/CS programs. I fear my gpa and the C gives them an easy reason to eliminate me, especially since I’m an Asian male. :frowning: However, I should have great grades every other semester, perfect or near perfect test scores, great ec’s, glowing recs, and unique essays. I know there’s plenty of other identical candidates without the blip, but I’m hoping to differentiate myself through my essays, which I plan to get really creative and risky with (maybe make my main one about rap or kpop). With everything else being stellar, can my one blip be overlooked? Or do I have to take a completely different direction at this point?

I know applying ED greatly increases your chances, but I find that highly undesirable. Also, my top 5 choices don’t have ED programs, and even if they did, I still wouldn’t want to do it because I like some flexibility. The ED programs I’m talking about exist at schools like Cornell, Upenn, CMU, and JHU. The acceptance rates for these programs seem to be around 20-30%, meaning I shouldn’t have a problem getting in. But there’s a chance I could end up missing out on an opportunity to go to a better school. I know cases where this has happened and the end result is usually tears and regret. Might I have to do this, or can I still get into a creme of the crop school?

My guidance counselor has never seen a situation as unique as mine and she can’t really help at this point. I’ve also gotten some advice from experts and they think obtaining Siemens and Intel STS semifinalist can help me, which is definitely possible, but i can’t be 100% sure I’ll obtain one of those. Ideally, I’ll get Intel STS finalist, but the chances are slim just because only 3% make it there. I also think I can obtain some letters of rec from professors at these schools because of my internships, which is realistic and I think it could help. No matter what happens, I’ll still have a big stain on my application that will not go away.

I also think interning at one of these schools this summer could increase my chances and I actually have a few offers to do so. I emailed 125 professors at various top institutions around the country and received 47 offers. I narrowed them down to the 10 most meaningful and those are at MIT, Stanford, and the UC Berkeley EECS department. I also applied to some summer research programs so those are options to. Will interning at one of these schools and getting a good rec from the professor greatly increase my chances? A meaningful internship where I could complete a project to enter into competitions would probably take about 8-10 weeks so I obviously can’t go to all 3. Maybe I could do something big at Stanford and small at Berkeley or vice versa since they aren’t that far apart, but it would still be hard. How should I approach this and will it matter where I intern?

Yes, I know that you guys will tell me I’m wasting my time doing this, but this whole thing only took me 5 minutes to write. I just need some honest advice on applying to these programs. Is ED really my only option? Is it worth it to fly out to one of the reachy reaches and do research there, or will it be negligible because of this semester? Also, will applying to like 15 top schools with a 36 ACT mean I have a high probability of at least one. I mean only 500-1000 in the nation obtain a perfect score on the SAT/ACT and I’m pretty sure all will go to a top school just because of the low number.

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Well, at MIT at least, the EA acceptance rate was 6.9 percent, so applying early there isn’t going to give you much of an edge. Take into consideration that most of the athlete’s get accepted then, the rate for regular folk is even lower. Bottom line, unless you have hook, at best it’ll be a crap shoot at ALL the school’s your targeting no matter what GPA you have or how many awards you’ve won.

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@vhsdad Will applying EA (not ED) have a meaningful impact anywhere? I wouldn’t mind REA if it actually had a real impact and I’d have nothing to lose at the other schools by doing so. I definitely know that ED has a real impact as it can increase your chances by a factor of 3-5, but there’s too much sacrifice.

4

The fact that you answered your own questions in one post reveals that you need time to take a deep breath:

“The acceptance rates for these programs seem to be around 20-30%, meaning I shouldn’t have a problem getting in. But there’s a chance I could end up missing out on an opportunity to go to a better school. I know cases where this has happened and the end result is usually tears and regret. Might I have to do this, or can I still get into a creme of the crop school?”

" Also, will applying to like 15 top schools with a 36 ACT mean I have a high probability of at least one. I mean only 500-1000 in the nation obtain a perfect score on the SAT/ACT and I’m pretty sure all will go to a top school just because of the low number."

It doesn’t seem like you were satisfied with the plethora of responses to your previous threads and you seem to be only looking for validation from people who are NOT admissions officers, so I’ll leave it at this:
Take time away from CC.
Relax. It’s useless to make excuses for things that have already happened and cannot be changed (i.e receiving a C in Physics.) It only builds up more stress.
Quit overthinking. After reading your posts, overthinking seems to be more of a problem than having a 3.63 UW GPA.
Don’t overload yourself with internships just to inflate your extracurriculars.
Do your best second semester and cross your fingers.

5

@jeg707 Okay. You’ve said it and it’s obvious. I’m stressed out and obsessed with getting validation. But yeah, the college admissions process is extremely stressful and I fear those rejection letters. But even 4 rejections and 1 acceptance from those 5 good colleges would still be beyond amazing. But in my current state, I see everything about myself as a negative and it’s hard to see anything good among my vast imperfections. I just feel that I have to be the best at everything and #1 in the world to receive an acceptance. I know it’s not true but I do know that the whole process is extremely arbitrary. I hate stress and want to forget that this semester ever happened. I’m not looking for people to give me completely accurate opinions, but I know there are many people on this site who know what it takes to get accepted. I feel like having data about previous acceptances allows me to see what I need to do so I can best fit the dataset.

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Even if you’re #1 you might not get accepted. Then again, you might get accepted if you’re not number one. Either way, constantly obsession and writing about obsessing won’t help. Go out and have fun instead.

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“The ED programs I’m talking about exist at schools like Cornell, Upenn, CMU, and JHU. The acceptance rates for these programs seem to be around 20-30%, meaning I shouldn’t have a problem getting in. But there’s a chance I could end up missing out on an opportunity to go to a better school.”

^This is SUCH an arrogant thing to say. First of all, with your grades, I wouldn’t be so sure. Second of all, how are these bad schools? All of the schools that you listed are amazing and honestly it would be a straight-up miracle if you got into any of them. Stop obsessing over “prestige.” Don’t apply ED/SCEA to a school just because you think it will be easier for you to get in. Apply ED to a school ONLY if you are 1000% sure it is your top choice school. And you should be looking at FIT, not the school’s rank when you decide this. Also, it doesn’t necessarily have to be a “top” school. Broaden your horizons a little. And when I say look at schools that aren’t necessarily the “creme of the crop” as you put it, I don’t mean John freaking Hopkins. Finally, get off this website until senior year. Your grades this year are arguably going to be one of the most important things that admissions officers will be looking at. Go fix those, stop obsessing over how they are going to impact you on this website. You still have one semester left, and your grades had better be amazing if you are looking at schools like these. Your GPA is MUCH more important than your ACT score. High GPA can make up for lower scores, high scores can’t make up for a low GPA.

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Junior grades are most important. Why are you looking at only these top of the tops schools. There are many good engineering schools if that is what you interested in. Forget about these schools and work hard in your test prep. What is your PSAT score? You should have your ACT/SAT score shortly if not already.

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@billcsho Their ACT score is a 36. They think this guarantees them admission to a top school, but GPA is much more important. Listen, colleges have their pick of students with perfect GPAs and 1500+ or 34s and 35s. A perfect score on the ACT can’t get you anywhere if you don’t have the grades to back it up. As a prospective engineering major, the fact that you have a C in AP Physics is going to hurt you even more. If this C was in French or something then that’s a different story (still would hurt, but not as much). If all of your other grades are As, that would lessen the blow but they’re not. The majority of your grades are currently not As. How do you expect to get into schools like MIT and Stanford? For your own good please block this website and go work on your grades. If you get those up to straight-As maybe it will lessen the blow, but stop being so arrogant, and stop thinking you are entitled to a top school.

10

I think that @sciencenerd said it just about perfectly in post #6.

The academically most demanding universities in the US (such as MIT/Stanford/Princeton/Caltech/Cal) might or might not be a good fit for students who have straight A’s and A+'s in AP classes and SAT over 1500 and most important of all who want to take on even more academically stressful courses.

For a student who is already getting B’s and C’s in high school these schools would be a very bad fit. Fortunately the admissions people at these schools know it.

There are hundreds of very good universities and colleges in the US. @“Prestigious Nerd” you need to get over your desire for a “prestigious” school, and instead start looking for schools that would be a good fit for you.

11

Since you are repeatedly posting, obsessing about validation, and about being number one, and you are NOT listening to experienced posters telling you to go enjoy high school, I don’t believe anyone on this website can help you.

If you can’t handle the anxiety now, how in the heck will you deal with real anxiety from college:
coursework, discipline, laundry, living with non-family, making friends?

Speaking from experience, you NEED to know that these schools have amazing students with international awards in science and technology that will seem to dwarf your “accomplishments”. Most of my kids’ college classmates, weren’t seeking prestige, they were just seeking a school where they could further their chosen interests.

Their GPAs, perfect SATs, and ECs weren’t tailored nor manufactured to fit a dataset. They just happened to win national awards.

My son’s housemates are very humble about their capabilities, and you wouldn’t know that their conversations focus on their hobbies like: biking, art, bowling, board-game playing, etc. The point being they are social and walk to Lake Avenue together for meals.

(FWIW: One of the admissions questions my daughter was asked by a Harvard interviewer: What would your friends say about you, that would immediately identify you to other classmates?)

How will you develop a strong foundation in sense of self if you can’t handle being a junior in high school? Your obsession for validation is sad.

Go out. Make friends in RL. Get a job for summer. Volunteer at a nursing home to speak with residents who have no one. Serve meals and sort donated clothing every weekend at a homeless shelter. Volunteer at Special Olympics events to help tie shoe laces. Volunteer at your local food bank, sorting expired and unexpired foods. You need to gain human perspective about what’s really important.

As others have said, block this site, or

Seek a mental health professional.

12

@“aunt bea” is right. Last year, one of my friends (she was the valedictorian) got into MIT, Yale, Princeton, UPenn, Tufts, etc. She is absolutely brilliant, and she chose to go to Yale. She’s doing great now but at first she freaked out. She is incredibly accomplished, but other people’s accomplishments intimidated her, and she felt like everyone else was smarter or more deserving of being at Yale. Even someone who had straight-As throughout high school, near perfect scores, was president of a million clubs, won national science awards, felt like they weren’t good enough when they made it to a top school. Stop stressing yourself out by saying you have to be the best at everything. There will always be someone better than you, that’s just how life works. If you are lucky enough to get into a school like Yale, just know that when you make it there you will find tons and tons of brilliant people who will make your accomplishments feel like nothing. If you can’t handle high school Spanish or AP Physics, how are you going to thrive among these people?

13

Can we not resurrect the same thread? OP posted before and got the same answers and it got closed…because he did not heed any advice.

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Stop obsessing over super selective schools that you are unlikely to be admitted to and find safety schools that you like.

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Like everyone else, I think you are being a bit arrogant with your presumption that you will have a 20-30% chance of getting in to schools that normally have <10%.

Please rethink your decisions, stop spending so much time on CC, and for the love of CC, heed the comments everybody has said on your previous post!

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@7eeer33 @sciencenerd123 my apologies if I sounded arrogant but I think there was a misconception. Some of the schools with 10% RD acceptance rates have 20-30% ED acceptance rates. But the higher acceptance rate comes with the huge sacrifice that I’ll be locked into the school if I get accepted. Also, they are not bad schools, actually very excellent schools, but not my first choices. But the thought of being forced to attend and having zero flexibility sounds very unpleasant.

Also sciencenerd123, congrats to your friend! I’m pretty sure she 100% deserved to get into all those amazing schools. And I greatly admire her humility. I think human beings have a tendency to doubt themselves, which I feel like I’m doing as well.

Also, physics wasn’t exactly a struggle nor were my other classes. I realized that I was being incredibly lazy last semester and didn’t study. But I’ll be sure not to make the same mistake again. Of course it was hard to adjust to new material that doesn’t come to me naturally, and I feel like I needed some time. I want to retake the subject test to further prove my knowledge in the subject and score a 4 or a 5 on the AP exam. This semester overall is not reflective of me and I want to use the next two and my ec’s to redeem myself. But the awesome grade on the last physics test shows me that if I adjusted my study habits I could do much better.

Spanish on the other hand truly is a struggle. I cannot get above a C on a test even with studying. But then again it is completely irrelevant to anything I plan to do. My bigger fear with it was how it’s going to affect my gpa.

Im probably also going to drop down from APUSH to honors history so I have one less class to stress about.

I 100% acknowledge that I’ll be competing against people with world class achievements, which they deserved, but I also know that most of the spots go to run off the mill hard workers. I just wish awards weren’t as big of a deal since judging is highly subjective in most cases. I personally believe that a glowing letter of rec can validate an achievement. And from what I’ve seen from many of the long time members on this site, I should very much focus on making sure these are great. I know there are millions of people with better gpa’s and I’m trying to compensate for it.

I actually think @“aunt bea” makes an extremely valid point. Enjoying life is crucial and cannot be forgotten about. I personally don’t care how accomplished or unaccomplished my friends are. I wouldn’t feel uncomfortable if I had the least impressive credentials. Even though I may be heavily posting them on this site, it’s not something I like to talk about. I don’t want to be the best at everything, but rather have solid passion and talent in a few areas and continue with those.

Also, I know my username is toxic as is my mindset. I’ve been surrounded by it my whole life and realize seeking “prestige” won’t get me anywhere. My family tell me they’ve been saving my whole life so I can go to a prestigious university and they’re constantly telling me that this semester means I’ll need to go to community college, which isn’t bad, but I’d lose out on the college experience and end up somewhere I wouldn’t have to go if I simply got better grades. There kind of is this need to please my family. I’m hoping to get into a really good university where I can further my interests. In fact, I’d rather go to UC Berkeley than Harvard or Yale simply because it’s stronger in engineering. I don’t have much interest in the latter two because I don’t feel the fit with the culture despite their prestige. But someplace like MIT, Stanford, or Berkeley’s MET is where I can feel I can really thrive and further my interests. I love the hacker/entrepreneurial culture and want to be surrounded by it. I enjoy pondering upon mathematics and how I can apply it to build robots with a social impact. And the idea of churning a startup is one that greatly excites me. But I know getting in is hard. But now I see that my ambitions to be world class at everything are solely for the purpose of receiving an acceptance letter to a place where I feel like I’ll enjoy myself. I agree it’s a stupid reason. But those single digit acceptance rates can be discouraging.

Maybe I’m overloading myself with things just to put on my resume and it’s stressing me out too much. I’m actually seriously considering dropping a few ec’s. I actually quite enjoyed the few times I spent in the senior center volunteering and think that I could benefit by going there more often. My greatest humility comes when I can be in a place without the stress of the outside world. And maybe I can combine the new technology with human spirit to help them. Then I can apply my extracurricular pursuits in a more meaningful and less self serving way. And enjoy making meaningful connections with people who are so deserving.

One thing that I’ve seen on posts that really upsets me is when people imply that things like intelligence and accomplishment are fixed. My personal belief is that anyone can change. Improvement is extremely important and it’s definitely something I want to focus on over the next year. But it seems like mistakes of the past are focused on in college admissions. If someone got straight F’s freshman year and straight A’s every other year, who they were 3 years ago would probably negatively affect them. I actually find it a little sad. I don’t want 5 crappy months of my life to define me and lock me out of things, but rather I just want to move on with the future and strive for the better.

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@Hamurtle actually good idea. I don’t want things to get heated.

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@billcsho my psat score wasn’t that great and I probably won’t get nm. It was 1400. But I did a lot of sat/act prep afterwards and achieved a 1540 and 36 respectively. Probably not gonna submit the sat since I got a perfect act. Also, my gpa was 3.2/4.0 last semester but this semester I’m looking to get a 3.8/4.7 (B would be in Spanish). To boost my gpa a bit in taking online cc math/cs classes and earning A’s. I’ll have a separate official transcript for those.

19

Are those cc class for dual enrollment or contribute to your HS GPA? If not, it is not likely to help your HS GPA. You may still transfer those college credits. Unless the college does not count your freshmen grades, you do need to include them in our application. So, what is your current cumulative uwGPA in HS? Other than having 36 in ACT, the rest of your application, in particular your GPA, is rather weak. Your chance would not be higher than those with near perfect test score but with perfect GPA. Don’t over estimate the effect of ED. Not everyone will have a higher chance by applying ED. You will still get into a good school, just not very likely for those on your title.

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@billcsho they don’t get directly calculated into my hs gpa, but i think universities sometimes recalculate. Also, the top privates encourage you to report the dual enrollment classes. I actually read on the MIT website that your gpa is not as important as your individual grades and whether or not you can handle the work, so I think my chances there might be better than Ivies, which are heavily number focused. As for the UC’s, they are included as they’re a-g courses. My uw uc gpa, which includes all 10-11 courses except PE and the community college courses, will be a ~3.8. If you include first semester senior year, then a ~3.85. Without the cc classes, my uw gpa for those 5 semesters should be a ~3.75 and a ~3.8-3.85 with freshman year. Gpa is only bad due to this one bad semester. Every other semester is around a 4.0 uw. I should have 5 B’s and 1 C. 3 of the B’s are in Spanish.

What else is weak about my application besides the gpa? Ec’s? Is there anything I can to in the next 10 months to improve my chances? Will demonstrated interest and passion for EECS evidenced by my personal projects, internships, and research help me? Or is the gpa going to be a killer even if everything else is great?