How Not to Advertise Your Alma Mater

<p>If you want to disagree with me, cobrat, that’s ok(post 127) but please, giving one example does not dispute my claim that “rarely do we hear on the news…”
Was your small dog dog bite on the news 20 years ago?
Do we often see small dog dog bites on the news today?</p>

<p>I was very careful how I worded my posting- I didn’t say any of the following:
small dogs don’t bite
a small dog bite doesn’t hurt
small dog dog bites never make the news.</p>

<p>If your newscasts often tell us of Pekingese dog bites mauling an adult, then your newscasts are very different than in my area. In such a case, my statement would be wrong. Perhaps you read my post too quickly.</p>

<p>Yes, breeding dogs is a HUGE problem. And yes, people not wanting to adopt is a huge problem.</p>

<p>However, my response was specifically to someone saying that there is no reason to have a pit bull type dog as a pet. If that’s what they believe, they ARE saying that all those dogs should be put to death. Just like, if someone said people shouldn’t have dogs as pets, they would essentially be saying that, given we already have millions of homeless dogs in shelters, all those dogs have to be killed.</p>

<p>My point is simple, besides all the good qualities these dogs have, one very good reason why people DO have them as pets is because they are in desperate need of homes and deserve a chance to live.</p>

<p>As for the news, the news is not a source for statistics. Just like a story about an honor roll, middle-class girl being kidnapped is a lot more likely to make it on the news than one about a troubled, lower-class teen, a story about a pit bull or a dog that generally inspires fear is a lot more likely to be reported. Since when have we started relying on the news as the complete picture of our world, one that’s not affected by what the viewers actually want to see?</p>

<p>Since when did anyone say we re;ly on the news as a complete picture of our world? Did anyone say it is a source for statistics?
It can be a view of the comunity or of the nation, though.
OMG, acollegestudent makes such outlandish statements based on something said that it is hard to give his comments much credibility. Someone said it earlier about student’s going overboard.</p>

<p>Personally, I believe if an adult was seriously mauled by a basset hound that it would be just as likely to be on the news as if it had been a pit bull. Perhaps even more so, because as dog maulings go, I am sure it is much less common than pit bulls!</p>

<p>First of all, I am a girl.</p>

<p>Secondly, if you don’t believe it’s a source of statistics or a complete picture of life, why does it make a difference that you hear news stories about pit bull bites? What does it prove and/or how does it apply to this argument? Yeah, it can be a view of what the community or the nation sees as a threat, but it doesn’t make it an actual threat.</p>

<p>A basset hound? Yeah, maybe it would make it on the news, because it’s unusual (although if a person was injured and not killed, I doubt it would). A lab? Or a German Shepard? Or an Afghan Hound? Or any other non- pit bull, Rottweiler, Doberman? I wouldn’t be so sure.</p>

<p>And the bigger flaw is that, even though a lot of people seem to think that if it sounds like a pit bull, it is, misidentifications happen all the time, especially since people EXPECT it to be a pit bull:</p>

<p>[Dog</a> In Attack Misidentified As A Pit Bull](<a href=“http://network.bestfriends.org/2045/news.aspx]Dog”>http://network.bestfriends.org/2045/news.aspx)</p>

<p>I especially like this comment left by someone: “Sort of sounds like the good old days, when 1 drop of black blood made you black and therefore worthy of discrimination.” </p>

<p>People do it with other people, animals, you name it: identify a group, find a ‘flaw’, stereotype, discriminate.</p>

<p>It is the word “complete” that bothers me most. I understand a presidential news conference for example can be covered different ways by tv news. I understand your point of view is also not complete; but both are a valid slice of life that show a view. Though it may not be complete, it can still be a valid view.
See the difference?</p>

<p>The difference between a pit bull and some small nippy dog is I can just brush off a small dog. A pit bull can chew my arm off and won’t let go.</p>

<p>I understand what you are saying, but this situation is different than a presidential debate. I think it’s a lot closer to kidnapping news, because it’s a situation where the statistics matter.</p>

<p>If you watched the news, as a slice of life, and followed kidnappings, you would get the idea that middle-class, young girls are most often the victims, and the kidnapper is almost always someone the family doesn’t know. However, in reality, most kidnappings are by a family member, and there are plenty of kids kidnapped in poor areas.</p>

<p>Statistics are important here too. If there are only 30 deaths from dog attacks (a small number to begin with) and you only hear about maybe 3 or 4 deaths in a whole year (I don’t think they report all 30, since I definitely don’t hear about a dog attack death every 10 days on the news) and all the reports are pit bull type dogs, of course it creates a slanted view!</p>

<p>One way or another, people are passionate about Breed Specific Legislation and the pit bull issue, and those on both sides of the debate will be much more likely to tune in to see a pit bull attack report than a lab attack. A lab attack will be dismissed as an unfortunate accident, while the pit bull attack will be seen as part of a pattern and generate debate. It makes more sense to report the pit bull attack. Add to that the fact that dogs are and have been misidentified in the past, both because the standards are so vague and because people expect it to be a pit bull, and maybe you can see why it’s hard to rely on the news for any sort of meaningful information on this topic.</p>

<p>Barrons, that’s the difference between a small dog and a big dog, NOT a difference between a pit bull and all other dogs. It has already been scientifically proven that pit bulls do not have as much force in their bite as some of the other large breed (which makes sense, since they are not that big). The locking jaw myth has also been dismissed - their jaws are regular canine jaws, no different from any large dog (I pry my dog’s mouth open all the time, because, having been a stray, he tends to grab bones off of the street and try to swallow them).</p>

<p>They are also some of the most abused and mistreated dogs out there, which is also why so many of them are homeless. None of this makes them worse than any other large breed dog. Abused, neglected dogs are more likely to bite. Large dogs cause more damge. Take any large dog breed and replace all the pit bulls with it that are currently being trained to fight or kept on chains and starved, and the result will be the same.</p>

<p>It’s interesting.</p>

<p>In her attempts to defend a particular breed of dogs, I think she is doing far more harm and effectively reinforcing a lot of beliefs rather than convincing people that pitbulls are less aggressive than other animals.</p>

<p>I’m not advocating breed bans. I do believe that being aware of breed history, breed size, breed strengths, breed weaknesses, breed assertiveness, typical breed behaviors, etc. is important. </p>

<p>As barrons stated, the difference between a pit bull and some small yappy dog, is that “I can just brush off a small dog. A pit bull can chew my arm off and won’t let go.”</p>

<p>acollegestudent, since you didn’t like my statistics source, here’s another. Perhaps you might feel it is less biased. :</p>

<p>From the Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association, September 15, 2000, Vol 217:</p>

<p>“The data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human dog bite related fatalities in the United States between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities.”</p>

<p>“From 1979 through 1998 24% of human dog bite related fatalities were caused by owned dogs (typically more than one) that were roaming off the owners’ property.”</p>

<p>This report is fair, balanced, and discusses the fact that since 1975, dogs belonging to more than 30 breeds have been responsible for fatal attacks on people, including Dachshunds, a Yorkshire Terrier and a Labrador Retriever. It also discusses the factors that may lead a dog to being more prone to attack, including lack of training, being chained up, and not being neutered.</p>

<p>It’s interesting that 50 years ago, pit bulls made excellent family pets-- being bred for fighting and all. Handler aggression was never, ever tolerated in fighting dogs because the handlers needed to be able to pull aggressive dogs apart from each other without being bitten-- something that is INCREDIBLY dangerous to do with average dogs. Trying to break up a fight is a really good way to get yourself killed. A fighting dog that bit a human would never be bred again, ever, for this reason. Families could bring pit bulls home and let their kids hang all over them and they were no problem-- much like how many of our beloved pitbulls are today, for those of us that have them.</p>

<p>Breeding got sloppy because people wanted money and didn’t care about what they were doing to the breed, and that has caused a lot of problems that have been very damaging to the pitbull reputation-- there are obviously a lot of dogs now that are very aggressive and unfortunately a lot of people feel the need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. I don’t believe that the aggression issues we are facing today are because “pitbulls are bred for fighting” because that’s been the case for a long time and this didn’t used to be a problem. It’s very similar to how all the dalmatian bloodlines got contaminated with blindness and deafness when the breed spiked in popularity a while back, and how their reputation was damaged. Breeding got sloppy and dogs that were NOT in line with the breed standard and should never have been bred were bred for money-- and, for those of you that don’t know, dog breeding properly is not a source of income but an expensive hobby, so that tells you what kind of people do these things. Because of the boom in popularity, bad breeding, and uninformed people bringing droves of dalmatians into their homes, the dalmatian now has a reputation for being aggressive and stupid, despite being HIGHLY intelligent and well behaved with the proper amount of stimulation and exercise. When idiots consistently bring a dog into the wrong circumstances and don’t care for it properly (including breeding it inappropriately) and it doesn’t thrive, it becomes a breed stereotype. It’s never a failing of the owners or the breeders, but it ought to be. Very few dog breeds are inherently vicious as a breed standard. Pitbulls wouldn’t be either if they were still being bred appropriately, and being cared for by people who have a clue what they’re doing. The few that don’t get dealt a bad hand at every step of the way can make fabulous pets. I’ve worked with dozens upon dozens of them, strange starving dogs off the street who by all accounts should be bloodthirsty beasts, and the only screwball to ever take a chunk out of me was a jack russel. </p>

<p>Of course, that doesn’t mean that there aren’t a lot of aggressive pit bulls out there. There are a lot of aggressive dogs in the world-- most of them being german shepherds, as they ARE instinctively territorial as a breed standard, which is not true of the pitbull. But there is just nothing about pitbulls as a breed that make them irredeemably, inherently violent. There are unfortunately a lot of circumstances which can create that in ANY individual dog, however, and pitbulls are particularly susceptible to crumple under those circumstances in my opinion-- they are very sensitive and they are very strong, which is a dangerous combination in a dog that won’t be well cared for. It’s a shame we focus so much on the former rather than the latter. The latter is a problem that would be a LOT easier to fix if anybody that mattered were paying attention. Try getting somebody prosecuted for dog fighting or animal abuse-- the last summer I worked at the shelter we’d managed to bust a 30 person dog fighting ring, and the police let all the dogs esape and all the owners got away because they “forgot” to arraign them within the required time period. Law enforcement and the judicial system are asleep at the wheel when it comes to preventing these dangerous animals from ever being created. They think they have bigger fish to fry. Which is all well and good until somebody gets killed, and we’re killing off dogs by the millions trying to prevent that and it isn’t actually solving the problem. The dogs aren’t the problem.</p>

<p>That’s all I am going to say about this argument, I am not interested in getting into going back and forth with somebody over this. But I have years of experience working with stray and otherwise homeless dogs, most of which are pitbulls, and I am happy to share the knowledge that I have. I won’t spend time fighting about it, however. These are my educated opinions, take them or leave them.</p>

<p>This source does appear to be less biased, although I don’t know why it’s so old. It also doesn’t separate out the two breeds</p>

<p>So, if this source is right, it may be about 1/3 of dog bites for pit bulls alone. Now, in shelters, across the nation, at least 20% of dogs are pit bull types. I don’t know the number for ones actually living in people’s homes, but the gap doesn’t seem to be huge. And the difference, as discussed earlier, can be attributed to how they are trained and raised. Also, keep in mind the identification issue.</p>

<p>It is definitely not the ‘typical’ behavior of a pit bull to bite people. Are some trained that way? Yes. But that has nothing to do with the animal’s personality. They are very people-oriented dogs, much more so than any other breed I have encountered. They really crave that human affection and contact every waking moment. They are very good dogs.</p>

<p>Same goes for Rottweilers, by the way. I spent my childhood with one. Why do they bite? Because so many people get them for that purpose - train them to be guard dogs. My parents got our Rottweiler with no prior dog ownership experience, and he was never any problems - I doubt that both my parents and I and people that I know who rescue these type dogs are somehow really lucky.</p>

<p>But oh well, some people, you can never prove anything to. And that’s OK with me.</p>

<p>Emaheevul07, very well said. I agree with the vast majority of what you said. I do think, that even with the bad breeding, most of them are not INHERENTLY aggressive, and it’s really the hand that they get dealt after that affects them the most. Still, I am happy to hear that someone has a good understanding of their personality.</p>

<p>“they are very sensitive and they are very strong” - I just loved this quote too. It sums them up so perfectly. I have never met such a sensetive dog.</p>

<p>Emaheevul–well said. I agree…very few dogs are inherently mean; they are trained to be mean. And most of the time, you have to treat a dog badly/be mean to the dog to get it that way. Every dog I’ve known that has a good family and is properly trained is a sweet, loving, loyal family pet. You have to remember that dogs are pack animals…if you socialize them properly and remind them that you are the “leader of the pack”, they’ll do anything to please you and fit into the family structure. (This can be a blessing and a curse.)</p>

<p>That being said, I am sometimes weary of dogs I see on the street, because I don’t know if they ARE properly trained, well cared-for, or if someone has trained them to be violent/aggressive. So I can see where the fear comes from. However, it shouldn’t be breed-specific. My best friend’s family has only ever owned Rottweilers, and they are big teddy bears that would never harm a fly. In my experience, the small “yappy” dogs tend to be more aggressive than anything else.</p>

<p>Anybody in their right mind should be wary of strange dogs on the street that are not contained and adequately supervised. I would be too, if I were in my right mind. :stuck_out_tongue: I’ve been desensitized to it after so much time handling unfamiliar dogs.</p>

<p>And despite the fact that I love pitbulls and am a huge advocate for them, and would own one myself were it not for the insurance issues, I admit I’d be concerned about moving into a neighborhood that has one if I didn’t know the owners and know how the dogs are being kept. Bully breed dogs do have to be handled by experienced handlers who understand the psyche of their breed and how to work with it, they’re not for the average person who just buys a dog and thinks they’re done if they feed it and keep its shots up to date. I think they’re wonderful dogs but they’re dangerous in the hands of the wrong people, like many dogs. I think particularly sensitive breeds tend to react the worst to these conditions, and unfortunately pitbulls are one of those breeds. The difference between me and people who have a really strong aversion to pitbulls is that I don’t think there’s anything inherent to the dogs that makes them “bad.” In the right hands, I think they’re one of the best dog breeds around and I fervently encourage experienced handlers to adopt them. SO happy and full of love and loyalty. I enjoyed working with them ten times more than any other breed.</p>

<p>Perhaps I could put it this way:
If, contrary to all his previous shown temperament, a Pekingese attacks me. It might hurt, but I am confident I can stop it quickly.
If, contrary to all his previous shown temperament, a pit bull attacks me. I might not live to tell the tale.</p>

<p>No matter how many times collegestudent wants to repeat its proven a pitbull does not have locking jaws, that is meaningless. What if he chooses to bite? or chooses to keep his jaws shut? Why he may choose to bite means little to the victim. Breed? Running loose? Bad training? No training? Stats show there are a disproportionate number of bites for pit bull types.</p>

<p>We all know a loaded gun laying on the dinner table won’t hurt a child. Not by itself. But, what if the child or someone else grabs that gun and is careless; then someone could get hurt. That is why we are advised not to keep a loaded gun in easy reach.</p>

<p>By the way, a good walking stick (I use a collapsable monopod) is a very good first line of defence against dogs.</p>