How possible it is to achieve dual degrees in WUSTL?

<p>I'm enrolling in the WUSTL as freshmen this fall. I'm thinking of getting a BS in Chemical engineering and a BA in economics. Is it totally impossible? I saw on the school website that there are something called combined degree opportunites which may require 150 units to get two degrees. It sounds not that mad to me. I am going to transfer about 15 credits leaving 135 credits to complete in four years. Is it workable? Has anyone tried similar things before?</p>

<p>If dual degree is too demanding, I may take a BS degree in Chemical engineering with a second major in economics. But i'm not sure whether I can do this since economics doesn't have anything related to chemical engineering... How does double major works? </p>

<p>Hope that I can get some ideas and advices from you guys. Thx!</p>

<p>There's no real advantage to a second degree that I am aware of. It's also a misnomer to say that they are unrelated.<br>
If your primary major is engineering (I believe you may actually have to, but either way artsci req's are more annoying than engineering, plus you can test out of writing 1 as an engineer), you can certainly double major.</p>

<p>Basing this on: Major</a> Requirements | Department of Economics</p>

<p>Points 1,2, and 3 are already required by the chemE major. That leaves 24 credits to complete the econ major.
12 of those credits can count towards your social studies requirements*, as well as the 300-level ss/h requirement.
That leaves 12 credits that don't relate to your engineering degree. If you're coming in with 15 credits (be sure you actually are though- they're majorly changing the ap policy), it's most certainly possible, although a bit demanding.
Note, the chemE major is a 127 credit major, apparently
(<a href="http://eece.wustl.edu/ContentFiles/Degree/WUSTL_BSCHE_Table01_080501.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://eece.wustl.edu/ContentFiles/Degree/WUSTL_BSCHE_Table01_080501.pdf&lt;/a&gt;)&lt;/p>

<p>*Engineers must have 18 credits of ss/h. At least 6 of the 18 must be ss, at least 6 must be h (or th or some art classes), and at least 3 must be at the 300 level or higher.</p>

<p>In what way is the AP Policy changing?</p>

<p>A lot of the courses are going from getting credit to advanced class levels, to only being allowed to place into the upper level, but no actual back credit.</p>

<p>This may have also been the case for this years freshmen (2013), but it wasn't the case for my class (2012).</p>

<p>You can see that the econ classes say "for students entering after spring 09" :
<a href="http://college.artsci.wustl.edu/sites/college.artsci.wustl.edu/files/AP%20Policy%202010.pdf%5B/url%5D"&gt;http://college.artsci.wustl.edu/sites/college.artsci.wustl.edu/files/AP%20Policy%202010.pdf&lt;/a&gt;&lt;/p>

<p>Note, there are also several changes for things that I know don't apply to me, but apply to the new incoming class (I wish I could have tested out of psych 100, even if they're still not giving actual credit for it).</p>

<p>I called regarding the policy, but as far as I know, I get 3 credits for a 5 on AP US History, 6 credits for a 4/5 on AP Biology, and 3 more credits for AP English Lit.</p>

<p>gunther: how do you get 6 credits for one AP Bio course?</p>

<p>I think the credits you can use for your transcript also depends on your major. If a bio major, for instance, it may not be a good idea (or allowable) to skip a bio class even if you placed out due to a 4/5.</p>

<p>Johnson 181, thanks for your reply!!! Making things much more clear to me. I read from the degree discription for BS. in chemical engineering that "Students pursuing the B.S. ChE degree trough the school’s Dual-Degree program (page 320 of the 2008-2010 Undergraduate Programs book) have modestly different requirements." </p>

<p>It appears to me that not all requirements needs to be met if someone is pursuing double degree. What exactly does it mean? Any idea?</p>

<p>That's what I saw online and what the AP credit person confirmed. For some reason, bio as a lab science for Wash U is worth 6 credits.</p>

<p>gunther- what are you planning on majoring in? the 6 for bio does NOT test you out of or give credit for any legit bio class (ie the intro sequence, 2960/2970). And the 6 credits does not count as a lab science- only as a natural science. The 2960/70 classes each have a lab component, which is why they are each 4 credits.
It will only be useful for you if you're in something entirely unrelated to a science major, ie a b-schooler looking for science credit.
Same goes for english lit. In other words, the credit you're getting is only 'elective credit' and useless in terms of placing into higher level credit. From my understanding, it will only help towards your total credit count (ie if you major requires 120 credits to graduate, that's the credit count).</p>

<p>caroline- be careful when you look up dual degree programs. There is actually a dual degree students group, which is for engineers who go to one school for 3 years (get a physics/math degree), and then come to wustl for 2 more to get an engineering bs. I know several of these dual degree students.
Now, getting 2 degrees (what you're referring to), is kind of pointless, as I mentioned above. Come to think of it, I don't know a single person doing this. They're all double majoring/minoring and having just one degree.</p>

<p>Here's how I understand it: If you do decide to go the route of getting 2 bachelors, you have to complete the requirements for both schools (ie the cluster system in artsci and the gen ed system in engineering). If you just double major, you only need to complete the system of the school of your primary major (which would be engineering in your case)
It is so much easier (and less time/credit consuming) to simply get a second major.</p>

<p>Another similar note to the bio topic:</p>

<p>Just as with bio, you do NOT actually get credit for the intro chem classes (111/112) with ap credit. The 6 credits you get are for chem 103/104, which actually aren't even classes you can take. Just as with bio, these are elective credits, and not really real.
However, a 5 in chem will test you out of chem 111/112 and 151/152 if you are engineering (but you still won't get the 10 credits that 111/112/151/152 are- you only get 6).</p>

<p>Going back to the original topic, there really doesn't seem to be much value in obtaining a second degree. </p>

<p>You wouldn't be taking any more Economics classes. You'd just basically need to satisfy all of Art Sci's general distribution requirements. </p>

<p>If your goal is to do Engineering and Economics, just get that second major in Econ. The benefits you will obtain (which I think are nonexistent, anyway) of taking all those extra credits of humanities, natural science, etc, distribution credits to get a second degree are not worth the hassle and extra time.</p>

<p>It is very easy to get a second major. A second degree is more complicated, because you need to fulfill the degree requirements of both schools, but since your first degree will be a BS from the school of engineering, there is really no need for the second degree in econ. A second major will accomplish just as much. (It would be a different story if your second degree was in fine arts...)</p>

<p>Just to illustrate the actual differences between dual degree with a BS in Engineering, and BA in Economics.</p>

<p>Engineering would be your primary school. If you were doing a second major in Economics, you would need to take 8 economic courses, and you would get the second major (note that you no longer get credit for AP, and so even if you get a 5 on AP Micro or Macro, you would still have to make up the credits with other econ courses).</p>

<p>If you decide to do a dual degree (get a BA in Economics)</p>

<p>You would need to take:
8-9 units of Natural Science (you'll already have done this from engineering degree)
8-9 units of Social Science courses
8-9 units of Textual History courses
8-9 units of Language type courses
3 units of cultural diversity courses
3 units of social diversity courses
1 Writing Intensive course in your junior year
Writing 1
Quantitative Analysis course
and of course the 8 economic courses.</p>

<p>Now the 8 economic courses will obviously fulfill the 8-9 units of Social Science Requirements.
As an engineer you need 6 units of Social Science, and 6 units of a mixture of Textual History and Language Arts, and 18 total. You'll fullfill 12 of the 18 in social sciences.
Which means you still need to take a Writing Intensive Course, 3 history courses, and 2-3 language courses. Additionally, these courses need to be in clusters (various course sequences)....they are a pain.</p>

<p>So basically you would have to take an additional 5-7 courses of subject matter that you likely have no interest in. </p>

<p>To top it off, if you get a dual degree and one of the degrees is in Arts and Sciences, you will need 150 units to graduate, instead of 120. This means that unless you take a lot of courses each semester, you won't graduate in 4 years. </p>

<p>I'm an engineering major as well, completing a second major in economics. There is no reason whatsoever to complete a dual degree in engineering and art sciences.</p>

<p>The only benefit for dual degrees I can think of is earning honors in Economics / possibly getting one of the departmental prizes. Only arts and sciences students can get honors in econ, and if you do an engineering program you'd be an engineering student without doing dual degree.</p>

<p>That's really the only positive to dual degrees I can think of...otherwise it really is pointless and not worth the extra year + extra requirements.</p>

<p>And in response to the initial question of "How easy is it to obtain dual degrees?" If you pursue two majors in the engineering school, you get two degrees automatically. Many of the courses overlap as well, and if for some reason you really wanted two bachelor's degrees, this is your best bet.</p>

<p>Finally, instead of a dual degree in engineering and arts and sciences, you can complete a degree in engineering, obtain a second or even third major in a&s, and complete a masters in engineering in 5 years - the same time span of the dual degrees options.</p>

<p>Just something to think about.</p>

<p>Can I do any of art&sci's freshman special programs - MBB, FOCUS, etc - if I enroll in other schools and only planning to do a double major in art&sci?</p>

<p>My WebSTAC account says my plan of study is "a BS in business administration and a BA undeclared". That's a dual degree, right? I'm thinking about talking to my advisor to somehow change that...
And also, what exactly are the requirements in b-school? This is all I can find on their website, and I'm still confused about what "core requirements outside business" and "general electives" mean:
* 39 units of professional business requirements
* 12 units of business electives
* 48 units of core requirements outside business
* 21 units of general electives</p>

<p>If your WebStac says that it means you are dual degree. I believe you can enroll in most of the arts&sciences stuff as a non artsci student, but I'm not 100% sure --I know you can enroll in freshmen seminars at least.</p>

<p>For Olin's requirements for the degree as of 2008:</p>

<p>Nonprofessional Requirements:
Writing 1 with a grade of C+ or better
Mathematics must complete Calculus 1 and 2
3 units of physical and life sciences
3 units of humanities
6 units of international studies
3 units of behavioral analysis
3 units of ethics and values
18 units of advanced electives (nonbusiness course 300 level or above, can double count with previous requirements)</p>

<p>Professional Requirements:
Mgt 100
MEC 290
MEC 292 or Econ 104B (they changed eon numbers, I think its now econ 1021- intro to macro)
QBA 120 and 121 (the business statistics sequence)
Acct 2610 and 2620 (first year accounting)
OSCM 230 and 356
Fin 340
Mkt 370
OB 360
Professional Electives: 12 units minimum of business school courses not listed above, generally in your chosen area </p>

<p>Electives: 24 units of electives</p>

<p>This is as of 2008, things may have changed, but for the most part this is probably right. You need to complete each of the 3 sections - non professional courses, professional courses, and electives.</p>

<p>Again, not 100% sure on the non artsci student taking artsci programs, but I don't see why not.</p>

<p>To specify on the elective things...</p>

<p>the 18 units of avanced electives is any non business course with a course level of 300, 400, or 500. Most likely these will be in the artsci school, especially if you're planning a double major which requires 18 units at the 300 or above level. </p>

<p>12 units of professional electives are any business school courses not in the list of specific requirements. This is where you might specialize in something like finance, taking more advanced finance courses.</p>

<p>The 24 units of electives are pretty much anything else, they can be any level and any school beyond the previous requirements.</p>

<p>thanks, marcdvl!! That clears it up.</p>