<p>I just thought, that with the stress of auditions on everyone’s mind that I’d start an interesting discussion inspired by my mom. </p>
<p>Like I’ve said in other threads, my mom took my first rejection harder than I did. I’ve told her the competitiveness of these programs, how many applicants versus how many accepted, etc. She always asks about why do you need to be absolutely perfect, isn’t the point of going to school to learn?</p>
<p>This sparked a thought, really how qualified is too qualified? The auditors know within the first few seconds the level a student is at, and the rest of the audition basically reinforces their initial analysis or completely changes it. Now these schools obviously want to keep up their reputation in the business. Just look at CCM and UMich, they’ve been strong programs for decades, but it seems that within the last 10 years, nearly all their graduates have gone on to be RIDICULOUSLY successful in the industry, to the point of being household names to Broadway afficiandos. While some programs may have seen a dip. </p>
<p>Obviously these schools want to look for the talent to keep these programs of high quality. But if many of these schools have to devote the first two years to breaking bad habits down and basically unteaching these kids. Why would they want kids who may already have equity cards or have been already employed professionally. It does seem a bit pointless for them to accept these types of kids when in reality they don’t so much need these BFA programs and many of them end up leaving before the training is up anyway. </p>
<p>I just thought I’d open this to discussion and see what other students and parents thought of this.</p>
<p>Hm. It’s an interesting point you bring up. On one hand, if the superamazing person goes to their school briefly and leaves, the school gets recognition, however they also lose thousands of dollars in student fees that could have been filled by a somewhat less superamazing person.</p>
<p>Interestingly, at my CCM audition on Sunday the head of the department was chatting with us and said “We are not looking for polished, perfect performers. What would we do with you for four years??”</p>
<p>Very interesting and intriguing topic, breakintosong! I will be interested in what the experts here say.
One thing you said particularly intrigues me, which is that “many” kids with Equity cards and professional credits leave before training is finished. Are you sure about that? Does anyone here who works with any of the schools have any statistics on this? It may well be true, but it might not be, either. It’s also my guess that MOST of the kids accepted by the top name schools do not already have their Equity cards and loads of professional credits when they enter. But again, I am often wrong, and might be in this case. Anyone?</p>
<p>Personally, I think it lies in the fact that different people can view the same person as being at different levels of ability. It is subjective. How many times have you as a vocalist performed something (horribly) and your non-musician friends (who really know zip about musicality) think the performance was flawless and that you should be on Broadway NOW. Lol, I mean, if a college adjudicator were at that same performance their review would probably not be as stellar. The same goes for YOU as the performer. Your view of other performers and yourself is very very distorted. We can’t help that, it’s just how it happens to go. I found, when auditioning, that everyone seemed lightyears ahead of me. I felt that I was never going to be accepted, low and behold, I was. As I’ve been at school, I’ve come to find that these same people who seemed so flawless, DO indeed have flaws. They’re very talented, but the more I hear them the less distorted my view becomes, and I see it a little more clearly. [And trust me, they don’t think they’re flawless… well, not most. The few who do, well, they need more work than anyone!] You have to become acclimated to that level of talent surrounding you before you can see more clearly how you compare to others and vice versa.
That was longwinded, I swear it’s relevent though… or I mean for it to be. I don’t think that these kids who everyone thinks are already ready for Broadway, really ARE. It’s just a distorted view we have of them. Yes, some students are obviously further along than others, but I don’t believe there is such a thing as over-qualified. Everyone has more to learn… the day a Broadway star stops learning, is the day he/she stops getting work. There is no perfect performer. I’ll say it again, there’s ALWAYS more to learn. Always always. AKA, all these kids at the top programs aren’t near perfect, they have a lot to work on, just as any other performer.
When rejections start to come, it’s hard, but you really can’t tell yourself it’s because you’re not good enough. Many schools accept students as they would cast a company. Too many of one type is never good. Chin up, when it’s time it’ll happen for you. Just know that the way you see yourself and others isn’t always how it really is. I’m sure we’re all a whole lot better than we give ourselves credit for.</p>
<p>I don’t believe “many” kids already have their Equity cards, and tons of professional credits. In the case of the few I do know, those were earned as child performers - and what would be expected of them in a casting pool at age 20 as opposed to age 8-12 is totally different. I would say it was a smart performer who realized, for example, that young Cosette 10 years prior isn’t going to carry much weight on their resume, if they can’t deliver the goods as an adult. </p>
<p>No one can afford to rest on their laurels - most actors in NYC continue to study acting, dance, voice to keep their skills honed.</p>
<p>NMR and MusThCC - You are right, at least as far as the past 4-5 years of admissions to CMU and UM go - most entering freshmen do NOT have their Equity cards, although some do - sometimes earned as child performers, and sometimes earned doing summer stock and regional theatre. And U of M at least takes performers who are very new to the field but show great potential - one was a student of mine, so I know for sure! :)</p>
<p>A clarification: UM’s program hasn’t really been around for “decades” - this is it’s 23rd year. ;)</p>
<p>All I know is that before my D started filling out apps. we sought several opinions about her abilities. We knew that she was a big fish in a little pond and that our own opinions would be warped. People assured us that she had a great shot and “would have her pick.” Well, they’re not exactly knocking our door down to get into their schools!
I think that parents of the past 20-25 years have been much more involved with their kids. They were quick to see their kids talents and got them into classes and into youth theatre. The level of competition is completely different today than it was when I was in college twenty years ago. When I was growing up (I’m in my low forties), kids did not participate in nearly the number of organized activities. We played outside and there were no opportunites for youth theatre until HS. Today, I run a Youth Theatre group and we have 3rd graders that come to us with 4-5 years of dance, acting lessons and voice training! They’re amazing! After our last show, several people told me that it was better than some HS shows that they’d seen. It’s not that my directing is anything special, we just have a lot of talented and well trained kids. I don’t know if that’s good or bad, just an observation.
I remember when my D wanted to play basketball in 6th grade. She was tall and athletic, but she had kind of missed the boat because all of the other girls had started in 3rd grade and knew the game. Her athletic ability and speed got her on the team, but she rarely got any play time. She probably could have been ok if we’d invested in private coaching and club teams off season, but it conflicted with other things and she eventually dropped out.
As I said, this is just an observation and I may be way off base. I think that there are kids out there who try out for a musical in their Jr. or Sr. year of HS and their directors are like “Where have you been! You’re awesome!” There are even stories about college kids like this! Who really knows? All you can do is give it your best shot and if you don’t get in, keep training and try again next year if you really want it. Break a leg!</p>
<p>Kind of derived from this topic, but I’ve also found it very intriguing to hear the various philosophies regarding freshman being permitted to/not being permitted to audition during their freshman year. Now that I’ve listened to 3 information sessions in two days (NYU tomorrow), both sides seem to make good points. I think there’s a lot to be said about kids who come in with a lot of experience who think they’ve got what it takes to audition freshman year, but really, for the most part, freshman year is about breaking old habits and learning new techniques.</p>
<p>However, I also agree that the process of going through an audition is valuable… for the students who continue on with their craft through productions, learning as much as you can about the audition process can be extremely beneficial. So if you’re a freshman, not quite ready to put to use those new skills you’re learning, it’s still a worthwhile endeavor to go through the process of looking for material (how many CC pages are devoted on how to choose appropriate audition material??), preparing, etc.</p>
<p>It’s a tough call, but I can definitely see both viewpoints.</p>
<p>i, personally, don’t think there is a such thing as “overqualified.” I hear you OP, but honestly, i don’t even think “little miss sunshine” oscar nominee is perfect. I mean, we can all use some work. On the other hand, i guess the schools have a point. At my audition for Syracuse, they stressed that they want to see how well you take instruction and react to change, hence the multiple times they stopped me during my audition to change things up a bit. lol. They want to see how well to listen to instructions. Working with a freshman or sophomore with an equity card or such may be difficult for they may be difficult to work with, i.e. have an attitude, etc. Who knows.
Interesting point though.</p>
<p>I have had many of these thoughts, especially during my Balwin Wallace audition. I was sitting there thinking “Ok, there are 42 of us auditioning for only 4 spots, I know that everyone in this room is talented, they are just looking for that one special thing in someone” </p>
<p>And that’s what helps me go from audition to audition. If I didn’t get accepted, I would just tell myself, “I didn’t have that something special that they were looking for”, but yet I know that there is someplace special for me.</p>