My D is considering UVA v WASHU (with some $$$) v UMich v Miami (with significant $$$) and possibly Cornell if admitted. Putting aside the obvious factors in making a decision, just curious what the opinions are of how these schools stack up in general public perception. At the moment UVA is at the top of the list.
Re: “general public perception”
@quadaces:
There are two problems with that:
One is that there is no one “general public opinion”. It will differ by person, region, major, age, etc. One person may be impressed by UMich but have never heard of WashU (this has happened in RL). Another person may see WashU as an elite private but see all state schools as being the same (we have seen this sentiment on these boards).
The second is how much does it matter? Grad schools do not admit by general public opinion. Employers do not hire by general public opinion.
@PurpleTitan I agree with you, but since we are talking about perception, I was just curious what people here thought. Personally I had never heard of WashU until my niece started applying 2 years ago and chose it as her ED school. From the list I always thought Michigan and Cornell were very impressive. We were really surprised how great UVA is and once you start talking to people about it you realize what a great reputation it has.
On the other hand, I really want her to consider Miami because they gave her a lot of merit money, but when we mention it to someone, a lot of the time we get a very negative response, and that certainly Impacts her view of the school.
Its just interesting that how the public views a school does impact one’s decision somewhat.
@TomSrOfBoston, it’s not being star struck, it’s simply that the top prospects tend to attend the schools - recruiter behavior is fairly consistent in that approach across all fields.
@CALSmom thanks for the explanation. I have seen the term only on CC and initially thought it meant career-focused schools.
@Chembiodad, not all fields. For one, target schools will differ by fields. For another, recruiting practices will differ by fields (and company).
“My D is considering UVA v WASHU (with some $$$) v UMich v Miami (with significant $$$) and possibly Cornell if admitted. Putting aside the obvious factors in making a decision, just curious what the opinions are of how these schools stack up in general public perception. At the moment UVA is at the top of the list.”
In general, my guess is that most people who have done even a little bit of research on college strength will consider UVA, WashU, UMich and Cornell to be roughly equals. Fantastic schools, all of them. Miami a step down from that top group.
For specific programs, though, there are certain schools that have outstanding reputations for that program. For example, for undergrad business WashU and UMich might have a little more sparkle than UVA and Cornell, but not by much.
@Chembiodad Totally disagree. In my experience hiring managers care most about experience. Especially for top jobs. My friend is an executive recruiter and agrees. They don’t care what college a recruit went to 20 years ago (executive positions go to those with 20+ years experience in the corporate world. In the startup world, college matters even less. So many never even finished college.
@socaldad2002 re post #59…actually you would be mistaken. Opportunities such as you describe are, in fact, available to students at all levels of universities. Back in the day I did a phenomenal study abroad at the University of London, took a class at the London School of Economics and studied with some of the top minds in my chosen field, all from my “directional” university Ohio U, without being in the honors college or the like. Last summer my daughter did a music study abroad experience, for which she had to audition and earn a spot (and there are not a lot of spots for an oboeist). They travelled throughout Italy studying at several renowned italian music conservatories and giving concerts, with other students from various universities in the US and Italy…she is neither an oboe or music major. She attends Marquette, where they don’t even offer music as a major. You can make/find great opportunities from anywhere, although they might be easier to find from a top #50 school.
^ (Post #67) This is incredibly industry dependent. Some industries don’t care where you got your degree, some care very much. No way to make a blanket statement about college prestige being a factor without knowing the industry.
@quadaces:
"Its just interesting that how the public views a school does impact one’s decision somewhat.”
It does because we are human, but that’s why it helps to be goal-focused and characteristics-focused.
You can say you like school A because all their students seem happy. Or they have great placement in some industry or grad programs. Or because of whatever resources or programs. And that won’t change because of public perception. Because 20 years after graduation, most people won’t even take note. If they do, her peers (assuming that they are college-educated white collar professionals) will still think WashU/UMich/UVa are good schools but many (especially those who took out large loans) will also think that going to Miami on scholarship was smart. Plus, with the money saved, she could pay for an elite grad program if need be.
For (except for the status-obsessed and insecure) they will judge her on her own characteristics rather than what undergrad she went to.
That said, for her own self, she may want to get a degree from an elite school at some point. But that doesn’t have to be undergrad. And if the money is all spent on undergrad, that means big loans/spending on an elite grad program if she gets in (except for many PhD programs, which are funded).
Marquette is an awesome school with top notch academics!!!
@milee30:
“For example, for undergrad business WashU and UMich might have a little more sparkle than UVA and Cornell, but not by much.”
Actually, for undergrad b-school, Cornell, UMich, and UVa are all at that top tier just below Wharton. WashU is getting there (or may already be there). But it’s competitive admissions in to UVa’s b-school even after admission to UVa. Same with UMich’s if you weren’t a Ross pre-admit. Transfers in to WashU’s b-school is almost impossible now. And getting in to Cornell is tough in general.
@suzyQ7, agree that 20 years later isn’t relevant, but as this is CC recent graduate experiences are the focus, Recruiters absolutely focus on the top-50 LAC’s, top-100 universities - if the prospect was a student athlete that’s a huge plus as it means drive, teamwork, leadership.
@milee30, Cornell, Mich, UVA, and Wash U b-schools are all going to be viewed similarly. Other top state flagships with strong b-schools will be viewed the same as well. Until you get out of the top-50 universities, I don’t think it matters much.
Even then, @Chembiodad, target schools will differ by fields and recruiting practices will differ by fields (and company).
@labegg “and these opportunities might be easier to get at a top 50 school”.
Agree and that’s the whole point of the “does it matter where you go to college”. As I mentioned in a differeny thread in my field, Big 4 public accounting, some of the major offices only recruited from certain schools, for LA primarily USC and UCLA. If you went to say Azusa Pacific University we may not actively recruit or offer internships possibilities since we had more than enough applicants from those other top schools. If you got a coveted internship, you were almost guarnteed a job offer. For the APU grad would have to take a different route, maybe work for regional or more likely local CPA firm, get experience for many years and maybe apply for position in the Big 4. Not impossible but a lot more difficult.
Regarding the UM, UVA, Cornell, and WashU, I think they are all very good schools and you can’t go wrong. Have to be honest, until the last few years, had not really heard much about WashU but lately has been a “hot” school and I now know several CA kids going there and love it.
@PurpleTitan, understand, but it’s very unlikely that a school outside the top-100 is a target for any industry. That said, I think people get way too wrapped up about the top-25 universities - think top 50 are all the same pool of prospects, and top-100 is fine; for LAC’s, I think it drops off more quickly.
When I hired actuaries I knew the top actuary programs. When I hired for the aerospace industry, my list of “preferred” schools changed. When I hired for a top corporate strategy rotational program, the schools changed again.
Don’t assume that people who get paid to hire and put together next year’s "class’- whether it’s new grads, folks with 5-7 years of experience, or executive level onesie and twosie type of searches don’t know what they are looking for and where to find it.
Someone recruiting mechanical engineers who doesn’t understand the difference between MIT and “non-accredited, anyone can get in and anyone can get out” engineering program isn’t going to last very long in recruiting. Even if the company’s strategy favors the state flagship (some do), or local engineering programs where kids “prove” themselves first with internships and coop’s (some do), the people making the decision about where and how to recruit know the difference.
The real question is- does it matter for YOUR kid. And the answer is- of course- is that depends.
Companies gravitate towards the top actuary programs because investing in a new grad who then has to sit for the various exams down the road is quite costly. A kid with rigorous prep is a better bet than a kid in a low ranked, easy to graduate from program. Is it 100% accurate? of course not. But the top programs attract better students, they may cover the same curriculum but they can handle a faster pace, are better with ambiguous problems, and over time, their schools have a better pass rate. So if you need a lot of actuaries, you could roll the dice on a weak program, or hire the kids from the better programs. If your job depended on it, what would you do?
Your kid wants to teach 3rd grade? Pick a school in or near the region your kid hopes to settle in with strong relationships with local school systems for student teaching.
“but it’s very unlikely that a school outside the top-100 is a target for any industry.”
@Chembiodad, all I can say is that from your statement, I can accurately infer that you aren’t very knowledgeable about a ton of industries.
@PurpleTitan, please enlighten as to Fortune 500 industries that target graduates outside of the top 100ish - always happy to learn more.