I was on the USC 2022 thread and thought I saw you were from NY/NJ??
Very difficult to get any money from UVA OOS. Not sure about Michigan but I think it’s also difficult. Should know more about Michigan, lived there for twenty years and all my nieces and nephews will be applying very soon. I’ve been living in VA now for twenty years.
I would not pay full OOS tuition at either school unless your daughter had a very specific interest in a highly regarded major at UVA or Michigan. I generally lean toward Michigan. Michigan is so broadly strong when compared to UVA. I do not understand how UVA is ranked slightly higher than Michigan. Their outgoing President pointed out that UVA is living on their past reputation and I absolutely believe that assessment. UVA is a top public school but it is not strong in STEM which seems to be a requirement for most top schools (unless you’re a LAC). For engineering, it’s not even the best public option in its own state; that would be VA Tech.
UVA’s strengths are in its humanities and particularly their graduate schools. Their Law school, Business school, and Medical school are clearly the best options in the state, and for Law and Business are highly regarded nationally. The Law school in particular is plugged into the DC network. Aside from the Ivy’s, I’d only put Georgetown and GWU as comparable for their DC networking. UVA’s business school is not an auto-admit. You have to apply later and it is very competitive. If I was recommending a business school for my daughter out of the two public’s, it would be Michigan.
Washington University in St Louis is an outstanding school, particularly for pre-meds. Numerous majors at Wash U are top 10 or top 15. Graduate schools definitely know Wash U. If they’re giving your daughter $$$ to attend, hard to turn down.
As for the fit at some of these schools, I don’t know the personality of Wash U but UVA has the “girls with pearls” and “guys with ties” thing going on. UVA has a reputation for elitism and self segregation as well. Michigan has so many IS students, I would be shocked if it gave off that elitist vibe. Miami seems to be a rising school for academics but I would worry about the accessibilty to the fast night life and dangerous reputation (and that’s coming from someone raised in Detroit who’s daughter attends USC). I don’t know how secure Miami’s campus is and would probably have to visit to check it out (like I did for USC). Miami is also, I think, a step down from the other schools.
@socaldad2002 You wouldn’t believe me, but I’ll represent to you that those opportunities that you are so in awe of exist at many many schools outside of the top 25-50. Many many.
@quadaces None of us are part of the general public any more. We have been forever changed by CC. But I remember before the transformation, I was aware that UVA was fairly prestigious even though it was a state school, because Katie Couric went there. I had never heard of WashU but would have assumed it was somewhere in Washington state and would have assumed Miami was a state school in Florida. Now, if you had asked me about Harvard or MIT, I would have been duly impressed.
@Chembiodad I don’t know about targets, but surprisingly, my D1’s school has one of the highest rates of graduate employment in her specific field among any school in the nation, and it is most certainly not a top school according to rankings.
@quadaces The University of Miami is a really good school (currently #46 on USNWR). What a lot of people don’t recall is that Donna Shalala took over as President in 2001 and used her experience from the Unviversity of Wisconsin-Madison to transform Miami into a really strong academic institution. If you haven’t followed the transformation, you might think it’s the school of the '80’s when they were mostly known for football. The team, rightly or wrongly, didn’t have a great reputation at the time.
Temple University- its actuarial program is almost always in the top ten- I believe its current “national ranking” is around 120 or so. U Maine- typically ranked around 170-180 of national universities- one of the top 10 programs for pulp and paper (i.e. that’s where the large US and Canadian paper companies recruit). Ditto Oregon State- used to be ranked around 150 nationally, and again, usually in the top 10 for paper programs.
@Chembiodad , I was responding to this post of yours, where u were talking about CEOs and their recruiters:
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CEOs would only be involved in hiring senior people. Yes, at a national level, top 100 universities and top 20 LACs may land an edge for the generic first job (but maybe not always as @blossom mentioned - hiring is industry specific). After that, your skills are what matter. Outside of HYPMS, If you think a degree from any of these top schools outside of that first job are your ticket to success, you would be mistaken. The exception to this is academia, where education is the skill.
@jcwjnw99 Thanks for the reply. Yes we are from NY. Her plan at this point is Pre-Med, but who knows what will happen in college. The problem with Mich for her is that it draws a lot of kids from her school and our area in general, and she wants something different. She really likes the UVA vibe and school spirit. WashU is great but very different from WashU. After all the the results are in next week, I think we will visit WashU again see how it goes. WashU Pre-Med is supposed to be really strong, but I understand its really tough. Maybe slightly easier at UVA.
California, especially Silicon Valley is an exception. SJ State is a huge school right in Silicon Valley and it’s not surprising it has more alumni working at Apple, Cisco and HP. Many of these tech companies need a lot of workers.You will find certain departments at FB, Google, Oracle, Netflix as well as tech private equities are staffed by more Stanford alumni than SJSU alumni.
Attached is Payscales ROI Index. There are always some industry specialty schools that rise to the top-200, but generally the index tracks other ranking systems https://www.payscale.com/college-roi?page=1
So, @Chembiodad, I was thinking of particular fields:
In News/media, Mizzou and Emerson are among the top 20 feeders to top news organizations: https://www. collegetransitions .com/infographics/top-news-media-feeder-schools
This would not be surprising to anyone in that field as Mizzou’s J-school is among the traditional top 3 in that field.
Mizzou is ranked #120 by USNews.
@quadaces, if she sticks with pre-med, taking that big scholarship from Miami makes a lot of sense. I would not recommend UMich for pre-med (definitely at OOS rates). WashU would also be very tough.
In fact, if she sticks with pre-med, prestige and general perception just aren’t the right things to worry about.
@PurpleTitan, agree top-100ish would include these top-150 universities. Given there are 5,000 colleges in the US, even if one included the top-500 unfortunately there are many where outcomes aren’t so great.
Only if you think you will make it to med school. But we don’t know that now. What happens if she doesn’t make it and get stuck at a school she doesn’t like?
@Chembiodad, but the thing is, for certain fields, you can find schools that are even lower ranked by USNews but considered one of the best in that field. For instance, Akron doesn’t even have a specific USNews ranking (they consider it Tier 2, so between #231-#300), but in polymers, they’re the top school.
You see among the top schools names like Baldwin-Wallace, Oklahoma City, and Point Park, which I don’t think USNews would have anywhere near the top 100.