How to convince parents of reality of acceptance chances?

Parents Forum
1

Bit of background about me: I’m international, I’m ORM (Chinese, not from China though), applying for US colleges in the next cycle (this September).

My parents seem ridiculously convinced that I will definitely get into one of the top colleges (by which they mean HYPSM, because… asian). They’re even reluctant to let me apply to other colleges which are great (and very selective) but not well known in Asia (e.g. Rice, Vanderbilt, USC). To them, it’s either I get into a top US college, or I attend our local university (my safety school, but a very decent school, well-respected internationally and one that I’ll be satisfied attending).

I’ve done a lot (really, a ridiculous amount) of research, so I’m pretty aware of my chances (read: very very very low), and I’ll be totally fine if I end up at my local uni. But I think my parents will be sad if that happens, because they simply don’t believe I won’t end up in a good US college. I’ve tried telling them US college applications aren’t even necessarily about merit, and with top colleges, it’s honestly a lot about luck.

Their reasoning though is that I’m competing against those from my region (Asia), and that I stand out because of my school (feeder school, sort of. We send about 40 to top US colleges a year), and my activities (some leadership, ECs, nothing really outstanding except one international competition that I’m not sure if US colleges recognise properly, and Yale Young Global Scholars program, which was one of the best experiences of my life). But I really doubt that’s enough to set me apart from literal thousands of other asian applicants.

How should I convince my parents that my chances honestly, truly are very very low (to save them future sadness)?

2

The overall admit rate for the super selective colleges is less than 10%. It’s even lower for int’l applicants, and probably even lower than that for ORMs. Would your parents jump out of an airplane wearing a parachute w single-digit odds of opening?

3

Just have them read some of the “results” threads. There is 1 for RD and early action/decision at the colleges in question. They will be amazed at who gets rejected. And the acceptance rates are even harder for international students.

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/1752941-harvard-university-class-of-2019-rd-results.html#latest

http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/harvard-university/1627558-official-harvard-university-2018-rd-decisions-only.html#latest

4

Have you considered countries other than the US? England, France, Germany?

Are you using a placement counselor? If so, would your parents listen to advice from that person on how many schools to apply to?

5

@twoinanddone, well, neither the kid or parents may consider schools other than the tippy-top American ones to be better than the local safety (which, despite being a safety for the OP, may actually be more respected over there than any European school besides Oxbridge or maybe LSE/Imperial/UCL).

But the UK schools should be an option, no? Admission to them is more straight-forward. What do your parents think of the UK schools I mentioned (and maybe a few others)?

In any case, all you can do is be honest: Say that you will try your best, but that you know the odds and so you’re likely not to get in to HYPSM. If that happens, they can choose to be sad if they want, but that is out of your control. You’re going to make the best life for yourself regardless of where you go to school.

6

@GMTplus7 not something I’m gonna say to them, sorry. strikes me as kinda rude for me to say to them (just imo)

@YoHoYoHo I’ve tried mentioning all this to them subtly over dinner, but they’re kinda stuck in the “yeah well that’s them, not you” mindset.

@twoinanddone I’m applying to UK colleges too, but again, anything other than Oxbridge, Imperial (and maybe UCL) isn’t better than our local uni. (Not applying to LSE because I’ll be applying to a science course in UK). I’m actually rather inclined to agree there, because UK unis don’t have the draw (to me) that US colleges do, because our uni follows the UK uni style (ie apply to a subject, very focused), whereas I like the more liberal arts, broad-based curriculum style of US colleges. I don’t even really think UCL is better than my local uni, factoring in the much much higher tuition fees.

@PurpleTitan Well, my local uni that I keep mentioning is NUS, which ranks top 20 in the world on most lists, in fact, ranks higher than some US colleges I’m applying to (I know rankings are really biased and don’t hold much water, but it still means something I guess), and I might even have the chance to do a year overseas at imperial/ucl/berkeley, so that’s really good.

Yeah, I guess I just need to worry less about this whole process, work hard, and be grateful that I have a really great university to fall back on :slight_smile:

7

Will they allow you to cast a wider net than just HYPSM and the colleges in England while also including these schools that they want you to apply to? Apparently you/they aren’t worried about the cost of these schools that are all very expensive. Then if you don’t get in to any of these most highly selective ones as you expect, you may have other US options that they may be more open to considering when that reality happens. The only problem with this approach is more applications and essays for you to complete.

8

Also, what goals do you have? What major(s) are you considering?

And yes, what can they afford?

9

@NorthernMom61 I’ve had the money talk with my parents, and they can afford to pay for a US college education (which I’m very grateful for). But US college tuition is 6 times the cost of local tuition fees, so my parents refuse to pay that unless it’s a college good enough to make it worthwhile, which makes a lot of sense to me.

My school also wants us to limit US college applications to 8 (not sure why honestly), so my list now is: Yale (SCEA), Cornell, MIT, Stanford, UMich, UC Berkeley, UCLA, Rice, Vandy, Duke, USC. That’s 11 schools, though I’m trying to convince my school that Berkeley and UCLA count as 1 school because I submit 1 application for both :slight_smile: Still will need to scratch one off my list though.

10

@PurpleTitan Would love to double major in science (biochem probably) and economics/public policy, and come back to my country and work in the public sector, which is why I’m trying for government scholarships (where my government pays for my uni education, and I serve a bond of 6 years working for them).

11

You’re the one saying your parents are being ridiculous.

I don’t know why an analogy is rude to you. If you want to convince your parents to let you apply to some other American schools, then u need to stop beating around the bush. Otherwise, just go to your “very decent school, well-respected internationally” local university and be done with it.

12

Using that analogy to parents could definitely be seen as rude in some cultures, including mine.

13

In what culture is it NOT rude/impertinent?

14

@GMTplus7 It’s almost equivalent to saying, “You’re being so ridiculous, why don’t you go jump off an airplane?” Sorry, but I think there are other ways of getting my point across to my parents, besides being rude (or even unintentionally rude) to the people who have raised me for 17 years.

15

@aznraffe If your school sends about 40 per year to top schools, I would guess that you have a pretty good college counselling department at the school. I suggest that you make an appointment with them for you and your parents to go in and discuss the list of schools that you plan to apply to. Do you have SAT or ACT results? That would help people on this forum to better advise you.

16

Boulders is right, everything is relative. You will be compared to others from your school, and perhaps your country. Unless your parents are up to date on admits countrywide, they may not have full information on which to base an opinion. This goes across many cultures, not just your own (parents having an opinion without facts). BTW, GMT and I must have been raised similarly - I did not find the analogy posed offensive. By training, I am an attorney, and use of analogies is how many attorneys make a living. Sometimes the more picturesque, the better.

Maybe your parents don’t really support your idea of study abroad. I wouldn’t have wanted my own child to go thousands of miles away to college.

17

@GMTplus7 is hardly suggesting that you tell your parents to go take a flying leap.

If your parents will only pay for an Ivy or the local safety, applying to other schools is just going to end up frustrating and disappointing you.

18

OP, just wanted to say that I think you and your parents are doing so many things right…and what seems confusing now will feel clearer later…apply to these schools, give it your best shot, and plan for all alternatives…with your outlook, everything is going to work out great for you.

19

If your parents’ optimistic reasoning is due to your school sending 40 students to top schools includes the fact that YOU are at the TOP of that potential 40 student stack, then you may be pleasantly surprised. Your school will likely get its 40, so don’t be too pessimistic.

Also, if you like the more liberal arts type environment that gives more freedom, you may want to whittle your list down with that in mind. Rice may go up while Cornell (and state schools) may come down in the pecking order; and consider Princeton too. btw, i’m not an expert on that criteria for these schools, just suggesting you look into it. Some will likely require you to commit to a major sooner than others.

You may as well shoot for the moon with a school like NUS in your back pocket.

20

@bouders yeah, I do have a decent college counselling department, but there are 3 counsellors for over a thousand students, and I was unlucky enough to get the new counsellor who doesn’t really know what she’s doing… she refused to see me or any other students until april this year (and we’re applying to colleges this sept/oct) and can’t really give me any advice beyond “keep to 8 colleges” and “take your SATs”.

My SAT score is 2320, 800 CR, 740 MA (I know, I’m a disgrace to my race hahahaha), 780 WR. I just took SAT II in May, I took math 2, chem and lit, getting my scores in about 3 weeks.

@anothermom2 thanks for the advice, glad to know this problem is universal at least! No, my parents are definitely okay with me going overseas, they do want me to get out of my comfort zone, and they’ve already sent my older brother to UK for university. I think it’s more a matter of they think I should be able to get into the best colleges.

@austinmshauri yeah, I personally don’t find it insulting or anything, it’s just not something I’d say to my parents when trying to convince them of my viewpoint. Over the past few months, I think I’ve kinda convinced them of the other colleges on my list (rice, vandy, etc…) but my mum especially is still of the opinion that they shouldn’t pay 60k+ a year when my local uni is much much cheaper

@SouthernHope thanks for the nice words! gosh I hope it’ll all work out…

@lz57c4 The problem is, I can only know the ranking academically. I’m pretty sure I’m at least top 50 in my school academically, but that’s not factoring in all the other important things like ECs, leadership, essays, etc…

After my current educational system, pretty much any college in the US seems liberal in comparison! But yes, Rice’s curriculum does appeal to me a lot. I knocked Princeton off my list a while back, because of the ridiculously low acceptance rate, and the fact that they don’t allow double majors