How to handle flameout in 2nd semester college sophomore?

cobrat · June 6, 2012, 10:14am

I made my points about top law schools due to the OP’s statement here:

I also felt the OP and S need to be prepared for the harsh realities of law school…whether it’s top 14 or those in the lower tiers.

Regarding my remarks about lower ranking law schools being more cutthroat…I wasn’t thinking of UVA vs UT…but either of those schools vs schools like St. John’s U Law in NYC where they tend to place all of their scholarship students in the same section so half or more are guaranteed to lose their academic scholarships when they failed to remain within the top x% of it after the first year.

blossom · June 6, 2012, 10:23am

Cobrat- still- I agree with everything you say (and there are schools ranked higher than St. John’s that do the same game with scholarships). But again- the immediate problem seems to be sophomore year. The parents getting agitated over a future problem is likely not going to help this kid get a grip.

delfinium · June 6, 2012, 10:48am

Thanks to all for your responses. I’ve really only been able to talk about this H, since S doesn’t want people to know about his problems, limiting who I can talk to.

I think my first post didn’t do justice to the panic that I felt when S went completely offgrid and I realized that he hadn’t shown up for any of his finals. Bipolar disorder runs in my family, and my brother committed suicide in his early 20’s, after dropping out of college. My sister suffers from bipolar and anxiety as an adult, has attempted suicide at least twice that I am aware of, and our mother has had a huge burden helping my sister and her children. I’ve never seen any sign of bipolar in S, but have always been a bit paranoid and overprotective. This doesn’t excuse my reading of his school email account (not his personal email account which I don’t have access to), but perhaps provides some context.

There was a suggestion to bring S home for the summer. Because he has the opportunity to audit the failed class this summer and replace the F grade, we think it is better for him to stay on campus. Someone asked if S is actually working the internship. He claims he is, but I don’t know.

The academic dean who handles academic probation told us that a student can recover from one occurence of a problem, but not two. He recommended that S not return in the fall, until he is ready to return, because if the problem recurs, it will cause a lot of damage to his academic record. The letter the school sent us says that the default is that S doesn’t return to school in the fall, but that he contacts the school when he is ready to return.

So, if S doesn’t attend school in the fall, I see it as following the advice of the academic dean, and protecting S from getting a permanent blot on his record if he were to flameout again, rather than being punitive. If he isn’t able to handle making up 3-4 weeks of work from 3 classes over a 3.5 month summer, how can we think that he would be able to handle the regular full-time semester?

S is worried about going to law school, but in the midst of this situation we have tried to downplay it. We told him that what he needs to worry about now is graduating, and that law school will always be there if he decides he wants to go, many years from now. He has wanted for years to go to law school, and has said that he wishes he could skip undergrad and go straight to law school.

The consensus here seems to be that I should back off and let S sink or swim on his own, which sounds like good advice.

campbellmom · June 6, 2012, 11:06am

I think he is doing too much. He has the academics which clearly he is struggling with, and then the time-consuming EC which demands a ton of his time and energy, and now an internship AND having to make up work from the second semester.

If I were in your shoes, I would have him stay home the summer and do the academic work, forgo the internship and tell him “the deal is you make up this schoolwork and then you get to go back in the fall.” At the same time, I’d have him see a psychologist for advice on how to cope with the many demands on him, as well as screening for any problems that might need to be addressed.

He is clearly overwhelmed and hesitant to ask for help. Since you let him go back to the campus and do the internship, you can now ask him to see progress on the work he’s trying to make up. This is a reasonable expectation and he needs to know he has to be accountable.

I think he has far too much on his plate, and would set academics and finishing his degree as the number one priority, along with his mental health. The EC and internship can be placed on hold until, or if, he can handle them all at once.

curiousmother · June 6, 2012, 11:39am

Dear Delfinium,

I am sorry that you are going through this.

Your son’s situation sounds eerily similar to one of my son’s roommate’s situation in many ways. He is tops in his EC (nationally if not internationally ranked), going to a top school (ivy), very pleasant, outgoing guy (when I met him at move-in and saw him again on Parents’ Weekend a few months later, he seemed perfectly happy and was very polite and kind). My son informed me that he is addicted to computer games (wakes up at all hours to play with kids in other time zones, etc). During parent’s weekend, his sweet parents told me that they were worried because his EC took up too much time and he didn’t have time to do all of his work (that’s what he was telling them), and they thought he should quit his EC. I was tempted to tell them that the EC was not the problem, but didn’t feel it was my place. As the year progressed, the computer game addiction just got worse and worse. Could this be your son’s problem? Maybe that’s why he didn’t go to his EC’s award’s banquet.

Anyway, best of luck with figuring this out!

moonchild · June 6, 2012, 12:00pm

I’ll be contrary. I understand completely your concerns, and I’m not convinced from what you have written that backing off completely is the right move.

I think you’re wise to have him take time off. The Dean recommends it, and they have experience in these matters. So far, you haven’t had any luck with psychologists or counselors, but I wouldn’t give up. I also wouldn’t dismiss the possibility of substance abuse- either drugs or alcohol. Some of what you describe as his behavior make me think this is a possibility, and if the psychologists don’t see any personality disorders like the ones in your family history, that also raises the substance abuse flag. The lying is also an indicator. Kids are great at hiding these things, but having him at home will make any type substance use very evident. You’ll be able to see it or rule it out.
I don’t blame you at all for worrying to the point of going over the line somewhat, especially considering what your family has been through. I do think your son will be able to earn the trust back in time, and he will be ok. But he needs help, and I really would take the advice of the Dean, keep him home, let him find a job or volunteer work, get the counseling he needs and figure out what went wrong. I do think he’s under a lot of pressure- maybe self inflicted- but if he has some space, and the freedom to get off the treadmill for awhile and know that he still has the love and approval of his parents no matter what path he chooses.

He may resist living at home, but unless he has the emotional strength to find a job, a place of his own and make his own living, he has no choice. Now, if he really can get his act together enough to move out and make it financially on his own, good for him and yes, then you can back off. 
This must be heartwrenching for you. But it seems far from hopeless, and many families do go through what you’re going through and come out better for it. {{{hugs}}}

Just saw curiousmother’s post, and yes, there are other addictions to consider. Not so uncommon, either.

siemom · June 6, 2012, 1:20pm

Hugs to you for your concerns for your son and for all you have been through with your family.
Like Moonchild, I would accept the advice of the Dean and have your son take next semester off. He could volunteer or work while being in therapy for whatever caused him to derail. It does not sound as though the health center at school is being particularly helpful and/or your son is not ready to truly delve in and follow up with them. 
Perhaps he can finish his internship and make up the class this summer and then come home. If he succeeds at both, then he comes home feeling better about his standing; if not, then more evidence of help needed. Either way, next semester at home. And perhaps, in the meanwhile, you can search for a really good therapist who is experienced with adolescent boys and has some background in the illnesses your family has faced. I assume your son knows about these - maybe he is worried also about his own future.

I might let him alone this summer but not after. As for reading his email, people can be quick to judge. I have no access to my son’s accounts and do not want it, but we do have one email account which we “share” and that is where emails concerning flights (his school is 2000 miles away), and prescription management are. Not because I don’t trust him, but because he is an adolescent young man who is still learning to manage all facets of his life.
I wish you and your son the very best and please keep us posted.

blossom · June 6, 2012, 1:33pm

Siemom- not judging here. Just observing. I think there is a material difference between a shared email account where there is no presumption of privacy, and an allegedly private email account where professors and deans and advisers send a student what they believe to be private emails.

And it is 100% understandable that the parents are concerned about the son, given the family medical history. So that conversation goes something like this:

We love you and are concerned about you. Would you be open to giving us access to your university email address so if we don’t hear from you, or if you don’t feel like checking in with us once a week to let us know how things are going, we can log in and make sure you are physically ok and able to read your email and keep up with your life on campus?

In the absence of such a conversation and the kids OK, I think it’s a breach of trust. Perhaps understandable- but a breach nonetheless.

momofthreeboys · June 6, 2012, 1:41pm

^^yes, and regarding sharing an e-mail with an adolescent, I’m guessing the OP’s son is no longer an adolescent since he’s finishing his sophomore year. Even if he went off to college at 16 he wold now be an adult or close enough. I treated our boys quite differently at 16-17 than I did at 18-19-20 both because of legal issues, but also maturation…there’s a huge difference between a 16 year old adolescent teen and a 19-20 year old adult.

moonchild · June 6, 2012, 3:00pm

I think the OP gets that reading his email was a breach, but I see how she felt it was necessary. Would they have any idea that things had gone off the rails to this degree- to the point of the dad feeling the need to travel out of state for a surprise visit, when only then did things began to come clear- if she had just believed what her son told them? He wasn’t being honest, and they had family history that led her to feel in her gut that her son was in big trouble, and she was right.
People who have never had a child, adult or otherwise, go seriously off track are often not able to understand how helpless one can feel when they know their kid is not being honest, and they also fear for his health and safety. Give the OP a break, here. I think she gets it.

delfinium · June 6, 2012, 3:31pm

S does play video games. I had discouraged him from bring the game system to school freshman year, and he left it at home, but he brought it to school sophomore year. I’m not sure how he spent his time those weeks while not going to class, but expect that video game playing and watching TV (on computer) were a lot of it.

Regarding missing the EC end-of-year banquet, S has said that it was hard to face other students, since they were all in the same situation as him (time-consuming EC, rigorous school), but they were able to handle it, and were getting better grades than him, etc., plus he would have to explain why he hadn’t been in class, since some other students from the EC were in a couple of his classes.

Regarding the school email account, S voluntarily gave me access to the school login password, and certainly knows I have it. I just don’t know if he knows that it means that I can access his school email, or that I have done so. Having access to tuition billing is helpful - we once had a problem where a payment wasn’t credited properly and had to be tracked down and fixed. Accessing his schedule, such as final exam dates, was useful to me when booking his flights home. Now, I’m sure someone will ask why I am booking his flights instead of him doing it himself, but it was just a lot more convenient since I mostly used my frequent flier miles, (I travel a lot for work and have a lot of miles, tickets bought on my account have free checked bags, etc.), and could pick flight times that were compatible for me or his dad to pick him up at the airport.

S will be back home for a weekend in a couple of weeks, to attend a cousin’s wedding, which will be the next chance I’ll have to talk to him in person.

For the summer, I think the plans are set, and don’t anticipate changing things. Although I should communicate to S more clearly that I don’t really care about the low-paid summer internship, and he is free to drop that, or just work fewer hours. H and I have said some words that effect, but never emphasized it.

Plans for the fall are uncertain. At the moment, I consider it to be S’s hands: if he is able to complete the work for the 3 classes (2 incompletes and 1 F) before tuition is due, he will have earned enough trust for us to be willing to let him to try again at school. If not, it is much safer to come home and get his act together first.

Thanks to everyone for the support and/or feedback, even those who are criticizing me about the email, since it is good for me to get that perspective.

Carolynmama · June 6, 2012, 3:56pm

I just learned the term “flameout” from you folks. I realize that is what our freshman engineering major just did. Very similar situation with the distance, course overloads and lack of communication from our extremely bright son. [I have no access to his e-mail.] U of I Urbana dropped him from the University completely due to his 1.96 GPA. He has depression. The Coll of Engineering Dean agreed to read his appeal, which my son is writing. The Dean indicated that he is compelled to hear about what happened only because our son told him about his depression. Otherwise, our son may re-apply for fall 2013.
Plan A is to write an appeal to U of I; Plan B is to find another school. It is very challenging to find another school for September 2012 as a transfer student. After reading all of your posts, I’m wondering if he truly needs time off.

lookingforward · June 6, 2012, 5:08pm

OP, this is one rotten semester-- or is there something more behind it? Is there a partic reason the dean suggested a break before aiming for a turnaround? Something more problematic?

Seahorsesrock · June 6, 2012, 5:28pm

His ec took over his life. That was the problem. It became his priority. Do we have to always have some some sort of huge emotional phsychologic drama when a kid fails?

He spent too much time on the ec, he fell behind in class work and studying, and then he decided to ignore the whole situation hoping it would go away.

Seeing that during this time he won some award at his ec, he must be functioning.

He made choices. These are the consequences. He has choices this summer. He can choose to try and pass his classes and start fresh in the fall or he can choose to fail out of college.

I wonder how many kids are going to blame some mental issue to explain away choices they made. Oh, I didn’t go to class as i was embarrassed and that made me sad.

I am not knocking the true depression diagnosis, but there must be some depression that comes from bad life choices.

Whatever this ec is, unless it is toward his life plans he needs to drop it along with those stupid video games

delfinium · June 6, 2012, 5:57pm

I think that if this was a drop in GPA because of a tough semester things would be different. But after 3 solid semesters (really 3.75 solid semesters), S just completely stopped doing everything. He saw and spoke to noone. He didn’t go to class, or to his final exams. He turned the cell phone off most of the time and didn’t read email.

If, for example, he had failed organic chemistry because it was too hard for him even though he was really trying, that would be a very different situation, and the next steps are obvious: switch majors, take easier classes and/or a lighter courseload, etc. But it is unclear what the next steps are for someone who just stops trying, suddenly and without warning, even for classes in which he had previously been doing very well.

delfinium · June 6, 2012, 6:07pm

About possibly dropping the EC, of course that is something that H and I have thought about. We aren’t really worrying about it at this point yet, since it will be a moot point if S doesn’t return to school in the fall.

He really loves this EC, and excels at it. His entire social circle is made up of other students from that EC. So, it would be really hard for him to drop it. And I think it is the key motivator that just may get him to kick his butt into gear this summer and do the makeup work, knowing that the EC will be there for him if he does it, and won’t be if he doesn’t. He fell apart AFTER the EC finished for the year, not while it was still going on (except for the end-of-year banquet, which isn’t really part of the activity.)

I’ll be happy if we manage to get to the point where we are able to seriously consider the question about whether or not to do the EC next year.

Seahorsesrock · June 6, 2012, 6:12pm

How bad a shape could he have been in if he went to an out of town event and excelled? He made choices to put his time into this ec. A choice. Was this ec always so time consuming? Was he always missing classes because of it? He didn’t stop doing eveything. He focused on his ec and let everything else slide. Got into a deep hole and stayed there.

There was plenty of warning,he knew what he was doing. If he hadnt won this award, then maybe you could say he stopped doing everything. Seems he was able to put in plenty of time, energy, passion into this part of his life, and ignored the rest.

Seahorsesrock · June 6, 2012, 6:15pm

I don’t know what the ec is, if it’s sports, music, drama, speech nd debate or what, but if he can excel at that, and was able to shine and win, then the rest he sacrificed for it. Again a choice. And now its the consequences.

momofthreeboys · June 6, 2012, 8:24pm

There’s some hard truth to what seahorserock is saying. I think perhaps this is a kid who has never had to push through which can happen to high school students who sail through academically. Learning how to dig yourself out of a hole is one of those very important life lessons and generally we create those holes ourselves. Lots of kids have to learn that freshman year, less often sophomore year but perhaps there are two issues going on as college courses do get more difficult each year. It is concerning that he let all his classes go to a bad place and I’m sure you are hurting and want to get to the root of it with him. OP I really hope he can dig deep into his belly and figure this out.

timeless00 · June 6, 2012, 11:23pm

OP, I dont think “sink or swim on his own” is very good advice. You have a good kid with a track record of working hard and doing well in many areas of his life. For whatever reason, he has hit a point in his life where he is struggling. Now is not the time to bow out of his life. While the decisions of what to do next are his, your advice, support, and attentiveness could be the difference between success and failure. Thats what parents are for.

In addition, for what it’s worth, I dont think you owe anyone an explanation or feel you should aplogize for having access to his school password, email account etc. I am always amazed at the judgemental attitudes of people who believe that their family dynamics should be the model for everyone else. There are a million good reasons for you to have that access and rather than causing his problems as some have insinuated, it enabled you to be there for him when he needed you the most.

Some kids are adults at 16, some need a lot more time and a lot more guidance to grow up. I should know, I have one of each. For one kid, I have password access to school accounts etc. With mild learning disabilities, I know that my child can get in trouble with very little warning. I have no apologies for keeping an eye on her. Nor should you. You know your kid best. Consider all the internet advice you read here but temper it with your own understanding of your family dynamics and your kids abilities, limitations and personality.

I wish you luck. Parenting is hard! On the bright side, he hasnt fallen so far that he cant recover. I do think you need a better understanding of what caused him to fail before you send him back. Stay strong.

How to handle flameout in 2nd semester college sophomore?

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