How to help direct a child

Parent Cafe
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I just made an account on here this morning because last night my son just broke down when we were talking about his college search. He feels like he can’t find any school that is a good match for him. He is scared that he will have to settle because he is too picky. He wants to find a business program that will do something for him. He is “really concerned that he will just end up as a random college grad with a business degree”. He wants to find a way to set himself a part. He keeps researching all of these business honors programs and very selective schools with business undergraduate programs and he tells me he likes them… but then later realizes he does not have the ACT to get into them.
We’re from the Midwest (Iowa) and he has a 32 ACT and a 4.0/4.0 gpa. He has great ECs (I think) of being captain in two sports, in 4H, having success in sports, president of class and student body, started a leadership type club… and a lot of other leadership organizations like that.

I guess my real question is how do I help him? How do I help him find a school that will match his interests? I don’t think the location has any restrictions. He is a rising senior that will have to start applying soon and I’ll be honest we’re both freaking out.

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  1. More than one school will be a "perfect" fit for him. The true recipe for success is his input to where he lands.
  2. What is your $$$ budget? No need to look at schools that you can't afford. Run your finances through some of the college affordability calculators.
  3. Safety, Match, Reach. Three types of schools to look for and apply to. Those that safely/match/reach your son's abilities and your finances.
  4. Start regularly sharing the info with your S that he CANNOT get his heart set on one place. Find a few places that will meet most of his "fit".
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Perhaps he should look into Northeastern and their Co-op program and Babson College if he has an entrepreneurial spirit.
The co-op is good because it exposes kids to different kinds of jobs and they gain valuable real life experience.

Good luck, he’ll do fine!

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@renee72

One of my kids was very anxious about getting into a “good” college. I think the atmosphere at her private HS contributed to her idea that many perfectly good schools were “beneath her”.

On one road trip, we listened to Frank Bruni’s book “Where You Go Is Not Who You’ll Be”.

https://www.amazon.com/Where-You-Not-Who-Youll/dp/1455532681

Well, ONE of us got a lot out of the book, lol.

Try not to get overwhelmed. Do you have a budget for college? I’d start there. Figure out what you can spend for each year of college, where that money is going to come from, and factor in any other children in the pipeline.

Learn how to run a Net Price Calculator and use it at various schools. Find out what you will be expected to pay. Let your son know what the budget is, so he is looking at schools within your financial parameters.

He can start building his application list, using the NPC at each school, looking for good programs, and then winnowing it down to the finalists he will apply to. His list should include some safeties (admissions and financial), plus some matches and yes, a reach or two.

If he can get that ACT up another point or two, he will increase his options re: merit scholarships. Is he NMF by any chance?

Watch your deadlines for scholarships; some are early in the fall.

Our kid wanted to go to a prestigious school, and we could not afford what the elite schools expected us to pay. She was very, very disappointed. She was “forced” accept a full ride at an OOS flagship. She went reluctantly. She complained, a lot, for most of her freshman year. She is very happy now, a rising junior at her college. She bloomed where she is planted. Opportunities have come her way because of the student and person she is, even if she is not at an elite school. I’m sharing that because it doesn’t have to be the end of the world if your kid is not excited about the final choice.

Give some names! What schools are on his list so far?

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A few things I would impress on your S:

–There are many wonderful colleges and universities out there where he can have a great experience and get where he wants to go in life. His grades and ACT will qualify him for many fine options.

–If you haven’t yet, perhaps look at some different type (size,location) schools to see if he has a preference.

– No one college will catapult him into a career. No one college will set him apart from the crowd. That part will depend on your S and what he does with his time at college – how he takes advantage of his opportunities there. He will need to be proactive in terms of not only understanding the material that is taught but also in terms of developing relationships with professors, getting involved on campus, finding internships when the time is right, understanding how to interview well etc.

–Keep in mind affordability (if that is an issue) when looking at colleges. Run net price calculators.

–It would be a huge mistake IMO to get set on one or two “dream schools.” The people I see get most hurt by this process focus on a couple of really competitive schools and then don’t get in. Instead work on getting a list of reach, match, and safety schools that appear affordable and that he would be excited to attend.

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Why does he want to get a business degree? He doesn’t need an UG business degree to go into business. He can be an accountant, go into finance with many different liberal arts degrees.
I think he has pretty good stats to get into some great schools.

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Agree with previous posts. I’d help him by setting up a system.

  1. Agree to what’s important to him: list these criteria.
  2. Start by having a spreadsheet or document where you can compare variables that are important to him. At first you can include a broader range of schools ( but it makes no sense to list highly competitive schools, or schools he would not attend for other reasons ( size, state). This will just eat up time and emotional energy.
  3. Keep adding and refining the list ( visit a few). Add safeties!
  4. What other factors may not have made the list which are important or he definitely doesn’t want ( for example Greek life).
  5. Look more closely at curriculum and programs. In an step by step fashion. Make notes. What does he need to find out.
  6. Once you have a final list go thru and see what he can do to make his applications more competitive. Start early. Have him list all of the essays he has to write and see if any can be done in a general way then modified.
    Have him focus on the schools he is most interested in to least interested in.
  7. Make sure all schools on the list are places he’d like to go.
  8. Finalize based on decisions and aid outcomes.
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@oldfort
–I don’t think the OP is looking for a debate on the merits of an undergrad b-school education. I know there are pluses and minuses but that would be a discussion for a different thread – I know for my S an undergraduate b-school was a great path. If the OP’s son has chosen that route we should respect that.
–And FWIW, you can’t be an accountant (or at least a CPA) without a business school degree. There are courses required before one can even sit for the CPA exam. (I’m a CPA as is my S)
–I do agree that the OP’s son should have many fine options.

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Ok. First, deep breath. Relax.

So question 1 is – big school or small? Start right with U of Iowa. Take a day and check it out. Can he handle that size? If he is more of a small school kid, Iowa probably has more small schools than any state I have seen. Check a few out.

If he can handle the big school atmosphere, he has many choices for quality B-schools. He’ll get into Iowa, no problem. Could try for Wisconsin, U of I, and even Michigan (crap shoot). Take a real hard look at Indiana (I’m biased) – with his numbers he’ll get direct admit into the B school. Great program. If he is looking for smaller – check out Miami OH (should get some money). Any of these schools will give him opportunities to excel. He just has to step up and take advantage.

My advice. Apply to every school you can. Have options. He’ll get “rejected” from schools he should have gotten in to. He’ll get accepted, but no money. He’ll get accepted with money. He may even get lucky and get surprised into a school he didn’t think he had a shot. Then throw a dart. :slight_smile:

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What does he look for in a program Entrepreneurial spirit? Potential of going into I-banking/consulting? If it is the former, there are plenty of state schools that fit the bill. Like our own U-Dub’s Foster School or all those wonderful B programs in Midwest mentioned above.

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@happy1 -

I don’t think it is really correct. You do not need a business school degree to be an account, you just need to pass the CPA exam. In order to sit for the CPA exam some states require few business courses. I just pulled up NJ’s requirements to sit the CPA exam:

I asked why the son wants to get a business degree because he may be misinformed it is the only way to get a job in a particular field.

It is my own bias about UG business degree. I think it makes more sense as a graduate degree after few years of work experience. I would rather see an applicant with econ or math degree.

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That can be an expensive and time consuming approach, oldfort. Not everyone can spend those resources.

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Most people are “random grads” with degrees in their area. He wants to be special as soon as he graduates without paying dues in the workforce. You need to straighten him out.

I have an undergrad business degree from Ross (Michigan). You know what? I was just another grad. I worked right alongside grads from state directionals, lower ranked state flagships, small lock colleges I’d never heard of, etc. I was nothing special — it was all about how hard I worked, how smart I was, how well I got along with people.

The name of the school on your diploma is NOT what leads to success. Good grades, bird digging for goid internship opportunities, and being a great employee in your early jobs are what he needs to focus on.

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What do you mean by expensive and time consuming? What are you referring to?

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^^Agree completely with @roycroftmom .

@oldfort I believe that @roycroftmom means that if one does not study accounting undergrad he/she will need to get the educational hours in business/accounting in grad school or with a post-bac – 48 semester hours is a lot – it represent about 40% of the courses needed for earn a 120 credit bachelor’s degree. Yes,of course a person with a liberal arts major can go on to become a CPA, but it will take longer (typically at least two semesters longer) if that person has to start from scratch in terms of fulfilling the accounting/businesses requirements. Not everyone can afford that additional cost (I know my family could not when I was in college). Also note that the parameters you set forth are just the requirements to sit for the exam, there are additional requirements which must be met before one is eligible to become a CPA. I am not expert in many things but I’m a CPA and my S has recently become one so this is a topic I am quite familiar with. As to the value of an undergrad b-school program we will have to agree to disagree on that – that path has served me and my S well but it isn’t for everyone. BUT since this train of thought is veering further off-topic, any additional comments on the CPA topic will be deleted as off topic and turning into a debate. If you feel a need to continue this train of thought please start a new thread.

Future comments should be limited to b-schools per the OPs initial criteria. Any discussion of the value of an undergraduate business school should be on a new thread.

Let’s focus on the question that was posted by the OP. Can you give any more details on what exactly your S is looking for in a college as well as what is affordable for your family?

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I second the recommendation of Frank Bruni’s book. An eye opener, especially if your son is hung up on magical thinking about prestige being a golden ticket. Heard Bruni speak on the topic and he has lots of interesting stats and anecdotes to back up his assertions.

Personally I think your son has got it made. If worse came to worst he would have instate tuition, assured merit, and direct admission to U of Iowa business school (really reasonable costs!!!) Iowa City seems like a nice place to spend four years, and he might be a star in that program.

And that’s worst case scenario!

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And he could get U of Iowa all squared away as a safety in July, I think!

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We went through just about exactly the same thing with our youngest two summers ago with somewhat similar stats. He also wanted a b-school and not to back door his way into it with a degree in Economics. The undefined nature of the work required can lead to a lot of stress. It’s best to help him condense the steps into a spreadsheet and break it down into chewable bites. Deadlines and estimated time required make it more real.

Sit down with him and go through a colleges stats and find their virtual campus tour. It’s not perfect but gives him a quick way to feel he is doing a reasonable evaluation. That way if someone suggests a college he knows how to find the useful information quickly.

Your son has the ACT to apply anywhere except maybe MIT. If he applies to only lottery schools then no telling why he gets accepted or rejected, but it will not be inadequate ACT score.

Here’s what he ended up with, a reach-heavy list because of the high ranking of our in-state:

Safety: In-state public. He was only looking at one other public because we need financial aid.
Reachy-reach: Notre Dame, Brown (their new entrepreneurship program), Penn, Cornell
More realistic but still reachy, mostly not applied to due to REA: Cal Poly-SLO (the other public), Villanova, Georgetown, BC (yes, we’re Catholic), Babson.
Some others that were almost on the list: Indiana, Miami of Ohio, Vanderbilt, Emory, WUStL, Washington and Lee.

My son also got some info and tips with others in his school’s business club, plus Reddit and Poets and Quants.