This is difficult for those of us in higher education. But we are wise to heed all this good advice to keep our good advice to ourselves. I often make conversation by asking where a family is visiting because I’ve usually visited there, too. Then I chat about things like “Isn’t that Winter Carnival amazing?” and “Did you eat in that fantastic dining hall? I would gain the Freshman 50 if I went there.”
I’ve worked in law firms for decades (not a lawyer), and if you’re not in the community, you probably don’t realize how many connections these people have with bright lights in all sorts of elite professions, including higher education. I have personally, through my friendship with a partner in a top law firm, socialized multiple times with a US Supreme Court Justice who was a law school classmate. I have met the Clintons in the same way. I am also aware of several (a couple - not a large number at all) college students in the last 3 years who were completely out of reach of certain schools (not Ivy schools, but two schools on the OP’s list and two of the tippy-top LACS) but got in because connections were quietly and purposefully used. In one case, the student’s Dad was a major and prominent donor to a particular college AND close personal friends with the president of the college. The full-pay student in that case was admitted off the wait list. I absolutely and unquestionably know that this happened, how it happened, and when it happened. It is rare and unusual, but I wouldn’t discount the possibility that a particular lawyer might have connections that you don’t know about.
Full pay, ED, legacy (?), consultant (or tiger mom) writing essays and “packaging” him? And perhaps dad or grandpa knows somebody. A lock for a top 20 university.
Life ain’t fair.
He might get into Vanderbilt or Northwestern. Apparently the 25th percentile for SAT scores in EW and M is about 700.
I try to point people to CC too. “I learned so much from this site called College Confidential.” Smile and Nod. If they are close friends and ask me for advice, I would get more in-depth. I try to phrase it as I learned this from CC or in the process of visits/applying. Then it seems like I was in their same position (true) of needing information and not just someone who is a “know it all”. Honestly, if hadn’t been for a friend lamenting about how her DD go no merit for her 32 ACT & stellar grades at highly ranked OOS U a couple of years ago - I might have really torpedoed my kid. It spurred me to start researching and I found CC.
Funny - Earlier this year friends were talking about how DS Junior would be going to an Ivy or top 20 due to his sport. I guess some reality has sunk in because we just saw them and they were talking about a State School and no athletics. So cross your fingers that reality comes during these tours and it won’t be too late.
Most parents that I come across have heard of match, reach, and safety. I just ran into this yesterday with my niece, who listed off 8 reach and 2 high match schools scheduled for their upcoming first tour. As others said, I would model by saying things like “I made sure D2 toured some match and safeties early on… it was a huge stress reliever to know that she had a school she liked and knew she could get into, and helped her stay calm about her crap shoot schools.” For parents like these, I might also point out that the higher her stats are in comparison to the average, the more likely they are to get merit aide. I somehow missed this point with D1.
If parents are ‘talking schools’, I don’t think there is anything wrong with making suggestions while letting them keep their list of dream schools. “You know what really helped Sally was applying to one rolling admission/EA school and having that acceptance in her pocket in case some other schools were rejections or waitlists.” " Your son is so talented in music. Has he considered Lawrence or St. Olaf’s?" “John got such great merit aid at Alabama.”
If it is early in the process, maybe adding more schools is the better course and then when it’s time to apply, they’ll see that they have too many reaches and knock one of those off and keep one of the safeties or matches that they’ve really come to love.
I’m late to this thread, but has anyone mentioned the school’s guidance counselor as a resource for college selection?
@winjammer I mentioned talking to the GC in post 43…others mentioned this as well.
I will say…while I suggested this…my own two kids were both told not to bother applying to the colleges where they GOT their bachelors degree.
BUT the GC should be able to point out the need for sure thing, and match schools as well as reaches.
I’m with the “smile and nod” group. However, if you feel that you must say something, I would suggest recommending that they consider a couple schools that offer rolling admissions and that they apply to these schools very early. The reasons I would give would be:
[ul]
[] Applying very early will give him a head start on his essays for the reach schools (especially if he’s using the Common or Coalition Apps).
[] Receiving that first acceptance will relieve some of the stress during the rest of the application cycle
[li] Rolling admissions applications won’t affect his ability to apply ED/SCEA to his first choice school if applicable[/li][/ul]
The unspoken benefits would be that:
[list]
[] Most (but not all) schools that offer rolling admissions have higher admission rates, making the school more likely to be a match or safety without actually calling it a safety or match
[] If he gets denied or deferred at the rolling admission school, he might have time to rethink his other application choices
Full pay. ED probably not. Legacy, not at any on that list. NO consultant – because they think there’s no point to it. Just fill out the applications and click submit. No hook. No sports. No activity (literally, none). SUCH a nice kid, but kind of unambitious. Not that there’s anything wrong with it.
You got me thinking, though. Someone might know someone.
You might say “Aidan and his dad are touring x college next weekend. I know it’s below target for Billy, but it could be a fun safety for them and more fun to visit together, so, would he like to join?”
I sat down with my son and reviewed the various websites that give information from the college DataSet’s and compared his stats to the typical student body for admission and also for funding. There was no way I was just going to throw money away for an App fee.
Even from a reach school approach, I made sure there was at least a slim hope. Many of the Ivy’s do not even offer that.
Friends are good but we have to parent and that is showing our kids a realistic path.
The specific kid I’m thinking of is a very nice kid, very bright, but very lazy. Has absolutely nothing on the resume. Nothing. Zero. Grades are fine, but not spectacular. Everyone was surprised when he got in where he now attends because the parents are divorced and many people don’t know much about the dad, other than that he’s a lawyer. That can mean all sorts of things, so people who know exactly what the son’s grades, scores and activities are absolutely didn’t know who the dad knows and that he was willing to pull every string to get the kid admitted there.
This kid is in his second year there now. Still hasn’t changed. Still a nice kid. Still mediocre but acceptable grades, and still does absolutely nothing but go to class.
So you don’t always know absolutely everything about another family, even if you know a lot.
I know I am very greatful for the friend that shared with me that although her over the top, high achieving DD got into tippy top colleges, they were totally unaffordable and that those top schools don’t offer merit. Saved us lots of time, app fees and broken hearts.
My humble advice is to stay out of it. They are simply touring schools right now-applying is 6 months away. Sooner or later (well, this time next year), you will find out where the student is enrolling. Then you can ponder if legacy etc made a difference.
What exactly are this kid’s stats, and how do you know them so well?
I certainly wouldn’t discount the notion that the parents are somehow connected to these schools and can use those connections to help their child. I know of a specific example where a wealthy friends basically paid for their daughter to get accepted to a top 10 school. She didn’t have the grades, the stats, nothing, but she did have a huge family trust fund through which she, as a teenager, made many significant contributions to various charities. She did have to do a year at community college to prove she could handle college level courses. She received a solid 4.0, which was enough for this prestigious school to take her in.
Also, perhaps they want to show this child what options are out there if he works hard. Maybe they’re thinking about where he might transfer to years down the line. I hardly think it’s anyone’s place to question why parents/students tour the schools they tour.
I sometimes go to open houses for homes I can’t afford.
“consultant (or tiger mom) writing essays and “packaging” him?”
I see no reason to think that adults writing the essays for a student provide an advantage at top schools. The readers know what they’re doing. I’d put my bet on student work every time.
I do too. All the time. But I don’t travel 1,000 miles to go to them.