Does anyone here think it’s a HS GC’s role to weigh in on the financial aspect of college applications? I don’t. Perhaps the ONLY thing they should do is to make families aware of the NPCs. If there’s a fact sheet or check list they give juniors to keep on track during application season, perhaps one of the items should be “If you are applying for financial aid, run the NPC for every college on your list.” Followed by a brief explanation of the NPC.
@brantly our HS counselors are NOT allowed to talk about money…at all. They can mention the net price calculators, and they do have a financial aid night every year with outside speakers who come to discuss financial aid.
But the counselors cannot discuss family finances…at all.
Oh…they also are allowed to mention scholarships that a student might qualify for.
@thumper1 Sounds about right. I think mentioning the NPC is a good idea.
Nobody is ever going to appreciate you being a killjoy. I don’t care how well intentioned you think you are being. Besides, college admissions is harmless. So back off and let kids dream big.
Absolutely it’s the hs GC responsibility to talk about money. It’s part of the application process. If our school hadn’t included a discussion of how to apply for financial aid and fill out the fafsa and css in a college prep meeting I would never have heard of it. What do you think it just appears to parents out of the blue? Oh I better do my fafsa?
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Seems like it would be appropriate for HS counselors to prepare a generic college money checklist for students and parents and leave it at that. Checklist would be stuff like
Know what net price you need to stay under before applying anywhere.
Use net price calculators.
Consider the various targeting of need based aid, merit scholarships, and low list prices based on your situation.
Remember that if you need a merit scholarship to afford the school, reach/match/safety must be based on the scholarship, not admission.
@klbmom18 No, it doesn’t “appear to parents out of the blue.” We applied for financial aid for our oldest child. The HS did not provide any information. For each college, we went to the website and clicked on the financial aid section. We then read the instructions on how to apply for financial aid. We also called the colleges if we had questions.
Yes…our guidance department had financial aid nights every year…and did give info about making sure to look at the college websites for financial aid application requirements…and deadlines.
What they were NOT allowed to do was discuss any family financials with any student or their family. In other words…they couldn’t ask what the family could pay, what the family income was, etc. School prohibited that…and you know…I agree. It’s really none of their business.
But yes…they HAD financial aid application information…told the kids and families to be very aware of what schools required, and the deadlines. Our GCs were pretty good about having kids cast a broad net and encouraged everyone to apply to one instate public option.
There IS a difference between touring and applying.
Neither of my kids visited any of their safeties. They most certainly had them and applied to them. But neither had any desire to visit.
For many students, the safety is a public in-state university that the family may already be familiar with – perhaps visiting the campus to attend other events, or perhaps simply because so many others around them have attended those schools. Or because the safety is geographically closer, the family may have visited and toured without fanfare. So the fact that the family is sharing their plans to visit Duke or Tufts or Wesleyen doesn’t mean that the kid isn’t also going to be applying to State U.
If in-state public options are good, there are a lot of parents who feel that paying private tuition isn’t worthwhile unless it is for a school that is significantly better than the state u’s. It’s a simple cost-benefit analysis – why bother touring schools that don’t offer anything better than significantly more affordable local options? Yes, maybe there are schools out here that would offer great merit money – but maybe the high achieving parents aren’t interested in trading off perceived school quality in favor of chasing after merit money for their bright but not amazingly accomplished son.
One of my daughter’s close friends lived with her disabled single mother on SSI. Tiny attached house, beaten-down car. Very talented girl with good grades and SATs. My daughter said that everyone was very worried about her as she was only applying to top schools like Princeton, Yale, etc… I got worried too when my daughter announced that she was helping the girl with her FAFSA (my daughter knew very little about that). Offered to talk to her about FAFSA and college admissions but this was declined.
Anyway, the girl was admitted to one of the CC darlings that does not promise to meet full need, just graduated (in 3.5 years) with a degree in Applied Math, will be starting on Wall Street as a quant this summer. Currently travelling the world (probably spending her sign-in bonus). It appeared her father who nobody knew about actually owns some mostly cash business. The end. Do not make any assumptions about the things you do not know.
As someone pointed out, they are touring, not applying. Isn’t the purpose of touring to gather information? If they sit through enough information meetings and gather enough literature they are going to become aware of the stats needed for the tier of colleges they are visiting. As you said, they are highly competent lawyers, I think they can figure it out.
@lizzy1234 “college admissions is harmless” That could not be farther from the truth. Maybe college visits are harmless, but even then it can get students heart set on something that is unattainable. Many students are absolutely wrecked by denials and acceptances without the aid/merit they need to attend. When that is coupled with no safety it’s a disaster for them. I am watching that fall out right now as I just mentioned in my previous post. Dreams are fine, but reality exists.
I think this is a family decision It appears the child has two smart, well educated parents, who are at the beginning of a long and worrisome process, and are intent on doing their research and preparing their child for the journey ahead.
And who knows if any of those schools they are touring are truly out of reach? It is a crap-shoot, and is not all about test scores and grades.
If you were to give them any advice at all, I’d suggest they pick the school they are most in love with and roll the dice with an ED/SCEA - that is the one mistake we made, my D did not, and I think we are paying now!!!
p.s. and a couple of Rolling Admission schools as soon as Apps open - that takes off huge pressure.
@brantly I’ve been there! College admissions have changed so much in one generation that a lot of people really aren’t aware how much more selective schools have become. Of course, you don’t know this family’s motivation for touring these particular schools, but I do remember so many well-meaning relatives saying about my daughter, “You mean she isn’t applying to any Ivy League schools? But she’s so smart!!!” when she didn’t have a snowball’s chance in hell of getting into an Ivy (they didn’t interest her anyway).
I often came across parents who I thought might benefit from a little updated knowledge, and I wanted to give it to them because they were friends of mine and I was worried that in spite of their wonderful intentions, they were setting their child up for lots of college rejections and possibly no acceptances anywhere. What I usually did was tell them about the common data sets schools publish, which most people outside of CC don’t seem to know about, and I would tell them how helpful it was to me to get an idea of my daughter’s chances at any particular school. Pretty much everyone was grateful to know there was something that concrete that they could use that might help give them a little more direction. Rather than coming across as unsolicited advice, it was just me sharing what I had found helpful. After that, I kept myself out of it. Best of luck to your friends’ son!
@brantly As the saying goes, “No good deed goes unpunished.”
You probably think that the parents will appreciate you sharing the truth because it will allow them to adjust their list and provide their student with the opportunity to find a school that is a better fit. That is a mistake.
Most parents just want to imagine that they are the rock star parents of a rock star student who is just as good as the students who are admitted to those schools but had “bad luck” in the “random” admissions process. They will not accept any information that points out that they or their student are not just as good in any way.
If the student gets rejected and doesn’t have a safety school, they can just apply to Penn State or Michigan State, or some other very good rolling admissions school and they will be just fine. No harm will have been done, and their belief will be preserved.
Good luck! Please update us as this plays out.
@Much2learn I don’t know about Michigan State but depending on major, Penn State might not even be an option if the student applies after the priority deadline (Nov. 30), especially for competitive majors, most notably engineering and Smeal (business). Last year the valedictorian of my daughter’s class, with top grades and SAT scores, applied late-ish to PSU and was rejected. Fortunately, she had already received a full tuition scholarship to Temple (and I think Pitt).
Absolutely none of your business. I can’t imagine why you would want to give unsolicited advice in this situation.
Yeah, the recommendation to just apply to Penn State late if you don’t have a safety school is ridiculous. And if the day of reckoning doesn’t come until the end of March, you’re really SOL.
@lizzy1234 I completely agree with you that no one should be telling a student or her family “don’t apply there, you don’t have a chance.” But there’s a huge difference between that and saying, “You know, you are only applying to colleges with admission rates under 10%. You’re not guaranteed to get into one of them, even if you apply to 10, and even if you are a great, great student. [Insert illustrative anecdotes.] It’s really a good idea to apply to at least one great college where you are certain to be accepted.”
Having highly educated parents can actually be a disability here. Unless they have been following admissions closely, they are not going to have an accurate idea of how competitive things are today. I sure didn’t when my oldest kid was a high school junior.