@lizzy1234 Obviously you have had a very negative experience with people telling your sister not to apply - but your sister had a positive outcome. This is not the outcome that most students have when applying to selective schools because vastly more are denied than accepted. Just because someone has wealthy parents does not mean they will be ok if they get denied at all the schools they applied to and have to take a gap year or go to a college that was a last-ditch effort. Additionally, @JHS is correct because a lot of the professional parents in my well-off neighborhood do not have a clue about how hard it is now to get into selective schools. I would disagree that I’m a Rando to my kid’s friends, they know me well and even come to me for advice. You don’t know the relationship that OP has with the friend. And once again I NEVER advocated telling the kid that he can’t get in. I think pretty much everyone is in agreement that that is not a good idea.
My daughter’s friend was a senior last year. We are close family friends. The girl is fortunate that cost doesn’t seem to be an issue since she has some wealthy relatives that pay for her big cost. She attends a private religious school. She isn’t the best academic student and got a 9xx both times on the SATs and very low SATII scores. In addition she actually had an F in some prayer class. Her mother works as a secretary for Harvard and figured with her daughter displaying diversity since he went to a religious school that she was a shoe in for Harvard.
I did ask about safety/matches. They thought she was a a shoe in for Harvard due to her diversity. I didn’t even understand the diversity part. She is white, non immigrant, not poor etc but they thought attending a religious school was enough to put her over the edge. They settled on a safety of U Chicago then eventually added Clark. Yes she was rejected by Harvard and U Chicago. She is currenty on a gap year study aborad even though she paid Cark to put her on deferment, she is trying to get into a Turor/NYC program.
The same girl was trying to tell me that Harvard routinely accepts kids with low SAT scores Under 1000) because they want diversity and they know Harvard knows some kids just test bad. She said a girl from her school got in with SAT’s under 1000 and B/Cs.
@momtogirls2 what kind of delusion is that? That is a clear lack of understanding of the admissions system, and offensive to students who actually work hard to get where they want to be. Maybe giving a wake up call to such people would be worth it. Then again such people just don’t listen. No offense to your family friends.
LOL – any kid who has convinced herself that it’s possible to get into Harvard with SAT’s under 1000 isn’t going to listen to any advice you offer anyway.
But I don’t think anyone needs to be helicoptering other families’ kids. If you want to mentor some underprivileged kid who does not have family resources – and who wants the help – fine. But the friends and relatives and neighbors who seem to be clueless or overly optimistic about the college search? Let them make their own messes and deal with the consequences. It really isn’t the end of the world if the kid doesn’t get into their dream college… or any college because of their application strategy. If that kid is really dead set on attending college, then the worst case scenario is a gap year and regrouping – and the kid has learned a very valuable life lesson.
But I really think that more often than not these kids simply end up at a directional state U because they did have a safety… they just were hoping for more, and there was no particular reason to be talking about that safety.
Sooner or later most of us have to learn these life lessons – if not from the college application process, because of other events in our lives. Bottom line: you can’t always get what you want.
MODERATOR’S NOTE: Please remain civil. I had to delete a few posts. If there are any more rude replies, I will close the thread.
@momtogirls2 “The same girl was trying to tell me that Harvard routinely accepts kids with low SAT scores Under 1000) because they want diversity and they know Harvard knows some kids just test bad. She said a girl from her school got in with SAT’s under 1000 and B/Cs.”
If you just add an Olympic Gold Medal to those grades and test scores, she might be right.
@much2learn there was a poster here who claimed that his sister was admitted to MIT with a 28 ACT…He said that she was studying law there. 8-}
To be admitted to Harvard with a sub 1000 SAT would require a donation of $50 million minimum.
Our high school did a whole evening devoted to educating parents on the financial aspect of college. But when they met with kids they didn’t say anything. And I don’t remember them saying much at the joint parent kid meetings when my kids applied. But we applied just before the NPR were ubiquitous. I remember running a few - which told me what I expected - my parents should have lived a few more years and we would have been eligible, but no longer.
My brother’s oldest got an 800 on the SAT writing test the first year it was instituted. There wasn’t a college in the country that was looking at that score, but he and his wife (both Harvard graduates) were so proud. I could not figure out a polite way to tell them I knew better. Luckily they were also devotees of the Colleges that Change Lives and so he applied to colleges that were actually quite reasonable for a very bright slacker. He’s a great kid, and I have no idea what he’s going to do when he grows up. But he’s married and employed.
Mind your business.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/05/10/opinion/brooks-started-at-the-bottom.html
I usually say something along the lines of “Have you looked at the Common Data Set for the schools your kiddo is interested in yet? When I first started looking for my eldest I had no idea that the CDS existed (thank you CC!) it was eye opening and extremely helpful.”
[quote[Absolutely none of your business. I can’t imagine why you would want to give unsolicited advice in this situation.
[/quote]
@leftrightleft
I never said it was my business or that I wanted to give unsolicited advice. Let me repost the original question:
Maybe the parents are doing this to schmooze with their bosses or fellow lawyers, so they look like big shots?
I think informing them about the Common Data Set is a good way to handle it. Play dumb and say you just discovered it, and wanted to share it with them as a useful tool in their college search.
For those people that saw a train wreck about to happen and said nothing, I honestly do not think saying anything would have changed the outcome. People believe what they want to believe.
Also, a good friend of ours has asked us on several occasions how much money we have saved for college. I think this is their way of saying “why have you applied to all of these private and very expensive schools?” I was very frustrated and told them “Nothing, not one penny.” This just stopped the conversation. I am sure this couple went home and talked about how stupid we are to be willing to borrow hundreds of thousands of dollars to pay for my D’s education. (even though we don’t know where she is going and it will probably be the state flagship where my D has received a very generous merit scholarship)
Our friends do not know that both sets of grandparents are contributing to my D’s education and I won’t tell them. If my D gets into a particular school, I am tempted to tell them we borrowed $70,000 for freshman year.
For those of you saying tell them to look up common data sets. I just did. How again does this dispel anything? Looking at Princeton, it vaguely details 90% have a 30-36 on the ACT and 86% have a 3.74-4.00 GPA or higher.
So a parent with a kid who has a 31 ACT and 3.75 GPA is going to say why not roll the dice. Or a parent of a kid with a 29 ACT and 3.6 GPA is going to say, well, it seems 10-15% of the class has those numbers…maybe they’re full pay…maybe grandpa is old friends with a US Senator for a letter of rec, why not try?
https://ir.princeton.edu/university-factbook/other-university-data/common-data-set
If and when the kid gets into a place you didn’t even think they should waste their time touring, THAT’S when you should say something - an apology for being judgmental. jk 
I’m wondering why the parents occupations are relevant at all. There are a lot of judgey comments…pun intended. There is a huge learning curve in this college application process… And while I would never appreciate someone being snobby about my kids chances, actual helpful info was (and is) greatly appreciated. I appreciated every thing folks told me about the process, both in person and on line. Even when I don’t necessarily agree with the opinions or advice I have received, I have learned something.
Hi @VAMom23 The only reason I mentioned the parents’ occupations was to make it clear that they have the savvy and wherewithal to research the process and the odds.
@brantly “The only reason I mentioned the parents’ occupations was to make it clear that they have the savvy and wherewithal to research the process and the odds.”
True that they are capable, but may have forgotten Richard Feynman’s words: “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.”
What makes you so sure he won’t get into any of the colleges they’re touring? Have you read his application? If you were going to suggest other colleges, which ones would you suggest? Does he like big schools or small? Public universities or private colleges? What does he want to study? There are a lot of choices for a student with a 31 ACT and a solid GPA, so if he prefers a particular region of the country it would be easier for you to help them pick likely candidates. Is the family full pay or do they need merit? If he needs financial aid their list needs to have financial safeties as well as academic ones.