<p>Mootmom:</p>
<p>A 15-year old taking AB-Calc is truly impressive. The GC certainly should be aware of what an achievement this is.</p>
<p>My D was a 15 yr old Junior 'till end of Jan…got a 5 on her AP Calc AB, 4 on AP Physics C (mechanics)…only has an 3.6 UW GPA…toughest courseload…GC not too impresses…advised not to count ANY UC as a safety. (This is at private school where average gpa acceptances to MIT are 3.6, Stanford 3.8). She just got National Merit Semifinalist notice. Great EC’s (music, 400+ hrs cs, leadership) but she’s a modest kid and GC has successfully lowered her expectations. Trying to strike a balance between buoying her spirits so she will have the confidence for a successful application to her favorite schools and dig far enough down the list to find a safety (CC?). Considering Gap year. Considering medication (for me).</p>
<p>Tsky,
your GC is the one that needs medications. Your D sounds like a great kid, and certainly doesn’t need to look at CC’s. My kid also had a 3.6 - will be attending UChicago this fall - so we’ve been through that with a happy outcome.</p>
<p>Tsky–good luck. Your D sounds very impressive to me as well. My S with a lower GPA is at UChicago and had a few other nice choices (Grinell, UCSanDiego, among others). MIT and Harvey Mudd did reject him outright, but you know, he just had to try for a couple of those reaches . . . I believe he feels that he ended up at the best school for him, and that’s what matters.</p>
<p>Thanks Ohio and Mstee…REALLY helps to get encouragement from any quarter. She’s VERY interested in UChicago (I spent a cold winter there when H was finishing Med school at Northwestern (downtown) because of their fantastic Archaeology/economics program.</p>
<p>Tsky:</p>
<p>Your D sounds great. </p>
<p>If your D likes Chicago, it is known for being welcoming to younger students (so is MIT). My S has two friends–siblings-- who were both 15 year old juniors, and academically terrific as well as having great ECs. D applied early to an Ivy and was accepted; her parents made her take a gap year; and she had a very interesting year doing different things. S is starting senior year. Parents are thinking of letting him apply to colleges like D, and then taking a gap year. That might be an option for your D.</p>
<p>D will be applying to both MIT and UChicago EA (non-binding). Stanford was always longtime favorite…possibly for emotional reasons (3 of 4 grandparents, aunt went there) but GC feels she could use a few great (senior) trimesters to improve her GPA. MIT seems fabulous and scary at the same time. Gap year seems to afford the ability to get 2 tries. We’ve even considered a program in Rome (she’s taking AP Italian this year). If she wasn’t happy with her options in spring she could reapply in fall, take courses at the local CC and/or work, then study abroad for a semester in Italy. How does a student increase their marketability in a gap year rather than the opposite?</p>
<p>Tsky- are you in California? For a California resident, the only issue for a UC is whether the student meets eligibility requirements - the “safeties” are then those campuses which tend to be less popular, though it could vary depending on major. If you are out of state, then the GC would be right - there is no UC campus that is a safety for any out of state student, no matter how low the GPA and test scores average for in state admissions.</p>
<p>Tsky:</p>
<p>The Harvard admissions website has a piece that specifically encourages kids to take a year off before college. You might want to look at it.</p>
<p>My S’s friends, who is going into science did an internship in a research lab for several months, then did an internship with a performing arts group (her main EC). She was admitted EA, so there was no concern over marketability. I would think that real experience would strengthen a student’s application. Consider as well that many colleges are nervous about admitting young students because of maturity issues. Another acquaintance, who graduated early and was also admitted early, was held back a year by her parents, who are academics and had had experience dealing with bright but socially inept or emotionally immature students.</p>
<p>Yes, we’re in California. D has a 4.0 UC GPA 2110 SAT (will probably do 2250+ in Oct). Average gpa accepted form her school is 3.4 UW/1350 old SAT. Would love to consider it a safety and get some sleep at night. H and I went there in 70’s (he chose over Stanford). It seems sufficiently far down in rankings to be a safety. Bucolic, lovely, bike crazy place. How “safe” would UCD be?</p>
<p>Moot- I don’t have too much to add here but one thing you could do to sort of smooth over any real or perceived discomforts between you and the GC and to build a path for the future is ask your S to go to him for a bit of advice about something. Then (you) send him a nice thank you note saying how the advice seemed right on to you and your H. GCs like to feel useful and they like to feel that they know what they are doing (which is not always the case). In the world of education, compliments – when specific enough and genuine – are even better than cookies for smoothing over differences.</p>
<p>Tsky - I think your daughter can consider the UC system a safety, not necessarily a specific campus – but UCD is definitely a likely admit. You didn’t list her SAT II scores – but I think that with the 2110 SAT I that she could pretty much sleep through the SAT II’s and still be UC eligible.</p>
<p>calmom and Tsky,
What the GC may be reacting to is what happened in 2003, when the UC system turned away students who met the requirements. It was the 1st time in the history of the UC system (and IMO a real shame). What with the opening of the Merced campus, some of the stress on admissions has been eased. That said, the UCs have been very unpredictable and UCD is rated fairly high these days. I would group the UCs as:
very competitive: UCB, UCLA, UCSD
competitive: UCI, UCD, UCSB
not so competitive: UCSC, UCM, UCR, </p>
<p>Suggest Tsky’s daughter apply to one of the 3 in the last group as a safety or possibly one of the state universities. Tsky may also want to find out more about how UCD evaluates students and reviews the apps. Each UC has its own rules. GPA and test scores are just a part of the story. </p>
<p>good luck</p>
<p>If you make too big a stink about switching to a GC that YOU get along with, you’ll go right into the Pushy Parent Bin in the Teacher’s Lounge. It’s not worth it. Your knowledge will get you through the process.</p>
<p>We didn’t have a GC for S1(not in the US). To top it off, his favorite teacher (South African) wrote a terse one line recommendation, a (wrong headed) speculation about S1’s English Bursary scores.</p>
<p>Oh well.</p>
<p>S1 was not motivated to fill out a dozen apps durong Bursary exams. We whittled it down to one insane reach, two matches and one safety. He could have gone to any of the schools and been happy. He ended up going to a school we never visited–though we love the city. He’s glad he didn’t get into the insane reach. </p>
<p>We are pleased with the education/experience thus far.</p>
<p>While it might be easy to be disappointed in the admission game, it’s hard to lose when an 18 year old gets the chance to go to college or university and think about stuff for four years.</p>
<p>So says me, anyway.</p>
<p>Mootmom, Even for easy kids the parent often needs to be the childs main advocate. For kids who are uneven in any of many ways lopsided statistics, special talents, learning disabilities, quirky personalities the parents role increases. In combination with a stubborn, lazy or clueless GC this situation becomes doubly difficult.</p>
<p>My son switched GCs midstream. The first was knowledgeable but lacked enthusiasm, then was gone. The second was personable but too new to know much. My problem in dealing with both of them was how to get what the job done without embarrassing them by pointing out their obvious lack of accurate information. (For example, #1 thought Skidmore was still all female. #2 had never heard of EDII.) </p>
<p>I found what worked best was to concentrate on what my son really needed from them the GC recommendation and the logistical support for getting information from the high school to the colleges. My son provided a clear outline for the recommendation and written instructions about what was to be sent where. We did the mailing ourselves wherever possible.</p>
<p>After that, we simply chose not to engage the GCs in areas where we felt that my husband and I knew better. This included school research suggestions and narrowing in on the final list. We listened to what the GCs had to say then did what we thought was right. We formulated our own list and didnt receive any pushback from the GC. If, on the other hand, you expect the GC will argue with your strategy, then you maybe the non-confrontational approach wont work. Otherwise, Id just limit the number of face to face meetings and do what YOU think is right for your son.</p>
<p>The exceptionally bright underachiever is a challenge for selective college admissions, but not an impossibility. Colleges are willing to take chances on these kids up to a point as long as they feel that the kid can and will do the work. The challenge is to determine first, can they, second will they, third where will they fit in? The GCs recommendation is, to me, the least important element of the application. For lopsided kids the teacher recommendations and overall application presentation are the most critical. Concentrate on strength, compensate for weakness and dont worry about the GCs personality.</p>
<p>Avoidingwork & Tsky- for what it’s worth, my d. is getting the same message from her GC. The irony is that my d’s GPA puts her in the top 5 of the class, out of 160 students - she’s waiting now to find out whether she will qualify as ELC. I am well aware of what happened in 2003, but it is extremely unlikely that will happen again. Even with the possibility that it does happen, it would likely be the borderline admit kids who would run into problems – if our kids’ grades, scores & coursework are strong by UC standards, they will get in. And what I mean by “strong by UC standards” equates to mundane by CC standards – SATs above 1800, GPA above 3.5, 2 or 3 honors or AP courses. Of course I am talking about the less selective UC’s being the “safeties” - but the point is, our kids are going to get in no matter what the GC’s think.</p>
<p>Just want to share this: over the past week, since school started, my daughter has been having no end of grief with her GC - she has been stressed out and angry every single day, ending the day with long tearful calls to her boyfriend. My d. arranged a foreign exchange last year, and worked carefully with the principal and her 10th grade GC to plan to juggle courses in such a way that she would be able to graduate on time, and also get credit for her overseas work. Now, this year’s GC called her in and says she doesn’t have enough course work to graduate, based on a totally different interpretation of graduation requirements --plus the GC has been totally inflexible and simply gets angry if my d. brings up the fact that she was told something different in the past. Lots of frustration – and I told my daughter, jokingly - “say the word and I’ll come to school and beat up Mrs. B” - but in reality my intent was to stay away from dealing with the GC. I told d. if she couldn’t resolve things on her own, that she should arrange a meeting with the principal and I would come. In the meantime I offered a variety of suggestions, none of which was really satisfactory in my daughter’s mind. </p>
<p>D. just called a few minutes ago, ecstatic. She has an open period, but no class openings during that period that would fill the supposed deficiency in her record. On her own, d. arranged to t.a. with a teacher during that period and he will give her credit for coursework that will fill the deficiency. This solution is something I would never have thought of – it involves d working with a teacher I never even heard of, who now all of the sudden turns out to be “really cool” - but of course I wouldn’t have suggested it.</p>
<p>So while I agree that in the end, its important for the parent to be available to back the kid up or help solve the unsoluble problems-- there is a great value in the parent holding off as much as possible to allow the kid the opportunity to try to work through things and come to a solution. For one thing, sometimes the kid’s solution is better and more workeable. This isn’t the first time I’ve seen one of my kids come up with a better idea than my own to resolve a school issue.</p>
<p>calmom,
good for your D - she must be clever (like her mom). My son ta’d for his comp sci and (ironically) his spanish teacher junior year, and was a chem lab aid senior year. Working with a teacher is excellent preparation for working with a prof at college - and I bet she will enjoy it, too!</p>
<p>Thanks for the compliment, though some of my suggested solutions for my d. were decidedly less clever. I think the main value is that I was a sounding board for my daughter and helped her explore and consider various options – and she knows that I would be there to back her up, even though my style is to stay out of the skirmish.</p>