How to repair relations with a GC?

Parents Forum
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<p>My older S is now a college freshman, and my younger S is a HS junior. There are 3 GCs at their school, and the class is split up between them. I dearly loved the GC my older S was assigned: she was everything she needed to be, although for my older S there wasn’t an awful lot she needed to do, honestly. Younger S is quite a different story: he has great test scores and unimpressive GPA (in fact, one might say depressing GPA) mostly due to a history of not turning in or not completing homework assignments. He is more of a laid-back second child type, although exceptionally bright and creative. His college search will be more of a challenge and require more support and teamwork from his parents and GC.</p>

<p>He found out this week which GC he had been assigned to. Unfortunately, this is the one of the 3 that I do not get along with. For some reason, I got off on the wrong foot with him, and he always looks askance at me, won’t make eye contact, doesn’t want to have conversations, and clearly is not comfortable with me around. I’m not entirely sure what I did to sour the relationship (although there was one flippant remark I made once about a year ago that he might have used to decide I was a jerk), but my stomach almost fell out when I learned my S was assigned to him. The assignments are alphabetical, and I do not believe there are exceptions made (plus I wouldn’t want to tick the guy off further by asking to have my S moved to another GC). My S says, “He’s a funny guy, he’s OK,” so they don’t seem to have any friction, although they haven’t really worked together yet (the GCs are understandably working with the seniors now).</p>

<p>We will need to REALLY WORK with my S’s GC to find the right places to apply, and the GC will need to see some merit in my S if he’s to write a reasonable recommendation for him. This S is not a self-starter and is not motivated to take the college process into his own hands, so leaving him to “go it alone” with the GC is not likely to result in a successful outcome. Any suggestions on how I might move to repair whatever is wrong in my relationship with the GC? Is it worth meeting with him alone sometime early in '06 once the seniors have their apps completed and submitted, and see if we can clear the air about whatever might be wrong? Or at this point should I just swallow hard and continue to be involved, pretending I don’t feel the tension? </p>

<p>Anyone had a child who worked with a GC you just didn’t get along with, yet managed to have a successful outcome? Thanks…</p>

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<p>moot - As I read your post what jumps out is “right places to apply.” I suspect you know a lot about colleges, perhaps as much as (or more than) the GC. If you are willing to stay out of the college selection process I don’t see a problem – the GC finds the “right places to apply” and supports this effort with an appropriate recommendations. If on the other hand you have a list of colleges you’d prefer S2 to attend and you’re looking for the GC to aggressively support your choices then you indeed have a problem. I didn’t get along with DD’s GC either, but little GC assistance was required so things worked out fine – I just kept reminding the GC how well it reflected on the high school to have students going to great colleges!</p>

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<p>Moot, at this point I’d advise you that your concerns are premature. First, your son could surprise you-- the all important junior year hasn’t even kicked off yet. A little maturity and initiative will go along way towards making the guidance counselor feel that this is a good kid who is still a work in progress, vs. a “lazy bum” type. Second, other than the vibe you have, you really don’t know what the GC thinks of you, or if that in any way shape or form will change his attitude towards your kid. Third, it’s not clear to me that the type of support you think your kid will need wouldn’t be forthcoming from this guy, or that clearing the air would change that.</p>

<p>If it were me, I’d wait to see the second act unfold before getting involved. If by some slim chance you’ve been pegged as “the mom from hell”, intervening now will definitely reinforce that!!</p>

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<p>I did not have a lot to do with S’s GC. I asked S to ask his GC to do certain things, to answer certain questions, etc… But I think I only had a couple of meetings over the years to discuss my S’s complicated schedule. Fortunately, the GC was very accommodating, but that’s besides the point.<br>
One thing you might also consider is communicating by email if you know that the GC actually checks his email. But seriously, I think this should be an opportunity for your S to take ownership of the process. You can still advise (nag?) behind the scenes, but it will be better if he deals with the GC directly most of the times. That would hold true even if there was not this history of awkwardness between you and the GC.</p>

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<p>I agree that at the HS level, it is expected that the student will do most of the communicating with the GC & school & parents will take an increasingly “behind the scenes” role, to prepare our kids for being self-advocates in college & beyond.
I get along fine with my children’s counselors, GCs & administrators, but try to give the KIDS the initiative instead of “hovering.” This would especially hold if I didn’t get along well with any of the adults in their world, for whatever reason.</p>

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<p>I have been in similar situations and have tried two different approaches, both with some success. The first is having my child do most of the communicating. I think some school officials and teachers prefer that sometimes, and I think it helps empower the student to have input in the process or in solving a problem. I assume your S is onboard with what you have in mind for him and can go armed with information that you’ve provided him when he meets with the GC. </p>

<p>The other thing I’ve done when parent meeting is necessary, and I’m afraid my presence will not be helpful, is to send my husband. My H is much more diplomatic than I am, and he’s been able to calmly diffuse some situations that I might have made worse. Just a thought.</p>

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<p>My initial conversations with my son’s GC were regarding her initial advice to him on taking the SAT cold and that 3 years of a FL were plenty. Ahem. So, then I needed to go in and make sure that the mitigating issues with my son’s GPA were (elder care related) were included in the GC rec. As it turned out, she cares for a disabled husband, and totally understood my son’s issue - so everything worked out fine. Sent her a big bouquet of flowers in son’s college colors when the good news came.</p>

<p>In our case, talking in person let us get past the previous issues. I asked her opinion on the potentional college list, and advice on other schools to consider. The thing is, even if your son doesn’t apply to any of the GC’s schools, you have asked for their valued opinion, and acknowledged that they are the professional. </p>

<p>Have anything glowing about S2 ready in writing to hand them. This acknowledges the value of their time. Also, most people find it easier to repeat infomation than generate it - if you have suitable text in your documents it may find its way more or less verbatim into the rec.</p>

<p>I am sure that GC’s are annoyed at many parents - as long as you treat him with the utmost professional courtesy and he likes your kid, I think you’re probably fine.</p>

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<p>We were lucky to have a very supportive and helful GC. He clearly must have written a glowing rec for my S. He did whatever we asked of him, but we didn’t ask for much! We hired a college consultant whose main contribution was to ease our anxiety. Most of the college selection process was handled by my wife, through reading books, manuals and discussions with many friends.</p>

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<p>Mootmom, what jumps out at me is that your concern seems to be that you don’t get along with this GC - whereas your son doesnt seem to have a problem. </p>

<p>I never even met my kids’ GC’s – even though my daughter is currently in the midst of a major problem related to her course schedule & graduation requirements. I’ve always had a behind-the-scenes approach, which may include my typing out a list of questions to ask the GC – but thus far I haven’t had direct contact. </p>

<p>However – my point is this: the real issue is the relationship between student and GC, not parent and GC. If you had an indication that the GC was penalizing your son in some way because he didn’t like you, I would agree that now would be the time for you to grovel to make it up. :wink: But your son doesn’t have a problem, and it is very possible that there is something you do that rubs the GC the wrong way, but that he likes your son. Keep in mind that sometime male-to-male dynamics are different than male-to-female dynamics – so your son in this case may have an easier time relating to his male GC than you do. It’s that “men are from mars” issue – the “funny guy, OK” comment is a good indication that your son is relating to the man on a different level. (You probably don’t want the GC to be a comedian - your son thinks it’s cool). </p>

<p>Do keep in mind that the reason that the GC may not like you is that he may perceive you as a pushy, demanding, or meddlesome parent – so the best way you can get the GC to like you may be to back off and let him get to know your son better for now. That doesn’t mean you go away entirely – just stay out of the way at the beginning. If in fact the GC doesn’t like you, you don’t want him thinking, “uh, oh - here comes Mootmom’s son” every time he sees your son.</p>

<p>But it may also be that you are misreading signals – and that the real problem is that YOU don’t like the GC, not that the GC doesn’t like you. So that requires that you take a deep breath and get rid of all the negative expectations that you have – and make a fresh start in your own mind. </p>

<p>Also - please be fair to the GC - if your son has an "unimpressive"or “depressing” GPA, there’s not much that a GC can do to fix that problem. The GC isn’t going to be able to write a glowing recommendation about what a terrific student your son is if the truth is otherwise. So your task is to be realistic in terms of the college app process, and not expect the GC to work miracles. The GC’s “recommendation” is not a very important part of the application process, because so many kids go to schools where they barely know their GC - teachers’ recs are far more important. For a case like your son’s, the best thing the GC may be able to do is explain deficiencies in the record - if there is in truth a good explanation. But to the extent that the recommendation counts, your best bet is to give the GC a chance to get to know your son, without your getting in the way of that process. That is especially important because you say son is laid-back and not a self-starter – he’s not the type to assert himself and make his presence known if you take over.</p>

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<p>Interesting and helpful responses, thanks everyone!</p>

<p>Aside: this school is a highly-regarded private college prep school. Pretty much all parents are expected to be heavily involved in the college selection process, and while you don’t know me, you may want to take my word that I am nowhere near the pushy/demanding type in comparison with my fellow parents. :wink: Point taken, though, that I should and will step back some and see where things go.</p>

<p>I don’t expect the GC to “fix” my son’s GPA problem: S has known for a while now that he would have to live with the consequences and yet it doesn’t seem to have sunk in yet. The kid has completely unrealistic dreams of following his brother to MIT, for instance, with a 2.8 GPA. I just hope the GC takes time to get to know him this year (and I fully agree that I need to be completely missing from that process).</p>

<p>While I didn’t want to go on at length, nor have it be seen as any form of excuse, I’ll mention that this S has had various learning challenges and ADHD, and is not yet reliable in terms of following through in all areas. Yes, he definitely needs the experience of handling things on his own in order to be successful at college, but at this point (age 15) he still needs to be observed to make sure something critical doesn’t fall through the cracks. I’d hate to sabotage his college chances to prove a point, although I do want to balance that with his need to be able to manage his affairs on his own. I noted this past year that many CC parents felt they’d had to ride herd on their senior in order to get schools chosen and applications completed and mailed in time, so I don’t feel I’m leaning too far into the “hovering mother” category just yet. I will try to carefully watch and avoid that syndrome.</p>

<p>I like the GC. I hope he and S will get along well, and I think at this point I’ll just drop out of sight and see how things progress by spring. Thanks for the thoughts, everyone!</p>

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<p>Mootmom:</p>

<p>Your S is a young junior, so that complicates his ADHD and other challenges. But, remember, he is only 15, he will become more mature during the course of the year and next. At the moment, since he is only a junior, he should focus on making sure he is taking the right courses and doing his best in them. You and he can begin thinking about which colleges to visit, what should be his criteria for fit, etc… and then find time to do some visiting. The role of the GC at this point should be fairly minimal. He really needs to get going in the senior year when recs, transcripts, etc… are due. So, there is time for you to repair your relationship with your S’s GC if only by staying out of the picture.</p>

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<p>Hi Mootmom!
My DD (you know her :slight_smile: ) and I didn’t care too much for her GC either. Most of my impression came from my daughter’s stories about the GC’s attitude and feedback she received from the GC and what she saw happen with the class before her. Kind of similar to your school, parents get very involved in the college selection process and I held back from stepping in to avoid creating tension between the GC, DD and me-based more on my DD’s preference than my own!! Things turned out fine and I believe that is what you will find with S2. Hopefully those GCs are kept way too busy to hold any grudges or any ill will - that is some high school!! They of all people should know every student is unique.</p>

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<p>Mootmom, just want to clarify – I didn’t mean to say that I thought you were pushy/demanding – just that the GC might see it that way. If, as you say, it is a school with a lot of parents who are far more hovering or demanding than you… then maybe what you are sensing is that GC’s response to all parents in general. (As in, “uh, oh - some kid’s mother coming by, better avoid eye contact or else she will try to start a conversation with me and then she’ll figure out that I don’t even remember which kid is hers”.)</p>

<p>Also - keep in mind that there is plenty of time for your son - the only “deadline” to worry about right now is the PSAT, and most high schools set that up for the kids – all they have to do is show up to school the day the test is given. Nothing more to worry about until spring.</p>

<p>One more comment: The fact that your son is on the young side (a 15 year old in 11th grade) - coupled with his ADHD - is probably a big part of the explanation for his poor grades and organizational skills. Maturity isn’t a cure for ADHD, but it sure helps – and ADHD kids often follow a late-bloomer pattern. So you might have the the combination of a late-bloomer who is accellerated at school, in a very demanding environment – not a good mix. Intellectually your son may be more than able to meet the demands of his school … it’s just that the part of his brain that coordinates and keeps track of everything can’t keep up. You might want to start thinking about a gap year for your son – either that, or he is going to have to think seriously about the types of colleges which will offer a lot of support and flexibility. </p>

<p>I don’t know if the GC at a demanding private college prep school is going to be the one with the best kind of information for kids like your son. In a sense, your son is out of his element – and the GC is working in an environment filled with high achievers whose parents want the kids to go to prestige colleges. So you may really need to rely on other sources of information to explore the best options for your son, simply because the GC doesn’t have the requisite knowledge, whether or not he likes you or your son.</p>

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<p>I am glad to hear that other parents didn’t have much to do with the guidance counselors either. I thought it was just me. I have no idea what advice he did or did not give my son. They met regularly - that’s all I know. But all the college “work” got done in this house. I had one meeting with him and my son, made sure he knew we were on the ball, and that was it. This too is a private school and the guidance office is (reputedly) excellent. I figure - free them up for the kids whose parents are totally uninvolved (and you get PLENTY of those at the “top” schools too).</p>

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<p>Personally, I find when I get too involved in D’s teacher/GC relationships, I tend to muck things up. </p>

<p>That’s not to say I’m not working hard behind the scenes, helping D select schools and organize school reports/envelopes for GC. </p>

<p>I’d let the year play out slowly and see how things develop. You have the great advantage of time.</p>

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<p>I’m with those who suggest it’s more important that your son get along with the counselor than that you do. (FWIW, the counselor sounds like he’s being a bit unprofessional.) However, if you want to try to patch things up, there’s always the smarmy approach where you compliment his work every chance you get. “I really appreciate that my son laughs at your jokes…”</p>

<p>Personally, I think you’re overestimating the damage of bad grades. While here on CC we see a lot of kids with supposed 4-or-better GPAs, I don’t think they’re that common, and I don’t think the colleges really expect them either, especially from young men with really great scores on standardized tests. I think those great scores mean a lot to many colleges, especially the LACs with a higher percentage of women. (Was it you who mentioned that your son might like an all-girls school on another thread.)</p>

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<p>A tin of cookies, coming from the student, with just a note thanking them in advance for all of their hard work. I’m always amazed at the power of cookies to smooth over differences. :)</p>

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<p>Yup, and Mootmom, from what I’ve read, you are a very good cook. A tin of homemade gourmet cookies would do it…</p>

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<p>I have no advice Mootmom, but I’m going to follow your S’s story with interest, because I have a high school freshman who sounds similar. No ADHD here, just immaturity and disorganization. Our school’s situation is a little different, in that we have a few high achievers (like my DD was), and most everyone else goes to state schools. My son may end up at a state school, but he liked some of the LACs he saw on his sister’s visits, and could probably benefit from a smaller environment. His choices may be limited by GPA and course selection as well, so we will see. Good luck to your son!</p>

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<p>More great suggestions, thanks everyone! I agree with all of you who suggested stepping back and giving things time… and to continue guiding my S at home with the skills I’ve learned here. Thank you! A few thoughts in response to some of the specific recent comments:</p>

<p>calmom: Whew, thanks for the clarification. :wink: You are right, he is somewhat at a disadvantage being young and bright and disorganized. But I do see signs of the fog clearing a bit – when I told him I’d gotten email that he hadn’t chosen his mentor for a school program, he said he hadn’t heard about it. :frowning: But then I got email the next day saying he’d left a note on the administrator’s door with the details of his choices, and she said that should be sufficient. He’s never followed through on his own on something like that before, so I am cautiously hopeful. He turns 16 in 2 more weeks, by the way, so he’s not <em>super</em> young.</p>

<p>marite:To his credit, my S (who was automatically assigned to the AP Statistics class this year as the “natural progression” from last year) agitated with the head of the math dept. to get placed in AP Calc AB this year, and was successful. (Now he just has to be successful in the class itself! :wink: ) He didn’t want to be in the “easier” math class, he wanted calc. I found this a refreshing initial change from his earlier laid-back-who-cares attitudes. Additionally, he’d had to drop an AP class last year because he wasn’t keeping up with the work, but chose to take it again this year and has the same teacher. So far, he tells me he’s been turning everything in and doing really well. I’m thinking this sort of turn-around might be a good sign (and might indicate a strong choice for a teacher to write a recommendation…) We’ve started talking about large/small, location, etc. and as we did with his older brother, we’ll visit CA schools on Feb. break this year, and east coast/other area schools on Apr. break, then any others over the summer.</p>

<p>dmd77: While it was not I who made that “all girls school” comment, I think it could pertain to my S as well. I’ve been dropping positive comments about several traditionally more female LACs and he rolls his eyes now when I mention them, but I think he realizes that these schools might offer him more “likelies” if they meet other characteristics. And you’re right: in non-CC and non-his-school contexts, he’s actually not all that bad a candidate. We tend to have our perceptions skewed a little here.</p>

<p>lderochi/achat: Mmmmm, cookies! A great idea for the new year! It’s in the Treo as a reminder now. :slight_smile: (I hope the GC is not allergic to nuts…)</p>

<p>Thanks for all the suggestions and insights, EVERYONE! I feel much better now about the situation than I did yesterday before posting.</p>