<p>I would also add, that those who snob you, are not real friends. It is actually a good test, who is there for you and who you should stay away from. Use it to your advantage.</p>
<p>You can say, “Thanks for your input. I’ll keep it in mind.”</p>
<p>If you want to say more, you could say, “I want to go to a liberal arts college, and these are ones where I have a great shot of being admitted and of getting the merit aid that I’ll need to attend.”</p>
<p>You don’t have to, though, provide any explanation at all. The people are trying to be helpful and supportive, so no need to become angry at them either. You can just acknowledge their input and then change the subject.</p>
<p>"People try to make my family out to be bad people just because they won’t fork over much more than 120k for school and I don’t want to be 80k in debt by graduation. "</p>
<p>Just ignore them or if they really are rude, thank them for your support and ask them if they’ll help pay for your education at the school they think you should attend. :)</p>
<p>raiderade,
Those advising you that you don’t need to justify your choices to anyone are right, of course, but I often find that a little judicious truth-telling often goes a long way in these situations. “For me it’s more about ‘fit’ than prestige, and besides, I have a shot at some really good merit-based aid at these schools” is both honest and ought to be enough to shut up anyone who’s trying to sell you a bill of goods on some other school. If they persist beyond that you can politely thank them for their advice and bail out on the conversation. At that point you’ve given them a straightforward and entirely sensible explanation of the basis for your preferences; if they don’t want to hear it, that just reflects their own ignorance.</p>
<p>Your situation is a really helpful illustration of a phenomenon that’s not widely understood, however. Some families have substantial nominal wealth tied up in assets that don’t necessarily produce much income and may be relatively illiquid, like real estate of many kinds, or certain kinds of family businesses. Those assets may disqualify their kids for need-based financial aid, even though the family may not have the income stream or the cash savings to pay full ticket. College financial aid offices tend to assume all wealth is fungible, and if your family’s holdings are tied up in “underperforming” assets like farmland or that remote mountain acreage you inherited from Grandma or the hardware store that’s been in the family for three generations, they figure that’s your problem; they assume you can sell or mortgage the asset if need be to pay for college, and the financial aid dollars go elsewhere. But selling or mortgaging isn’t always so easy. This can hit farm kids especially hard, as many farm families tend to be “land-rich” but not particularly high income, making mortgaging the land highly risky; yet selling the land would put the family business out of existence, not an easy decision to make even for the sake of your kid’s education. So kids in this situation often end up at the state U or at slightly lower-ranked colleges that offer merit aid. I’m not saying the need-based financial aid formulas need to be changed; it’s just a difficult problem. But need-based FA clearly doesn’t work for everyone, and anyone who says otherwise doesn’t know what they’re talking about.</p>
<p>
Us exactly. Frankly, I find it kind of hard to understand why certain business assets are excluded from assets, but rental real estate is not. The history of this scheme isn’t really clear.</p>
<p>My D’s response: I always wanted to go to a small LAC and fortunately I’ve done well enough in school to be able to make the choice. Applications to schools I don’t want to go to cost money and are a lot of work. I’ve already applied to 8 schools that I would like to attend and are great opportunities.</p>
<p>You have a very nice list of schools - at a variety of selectivity levels, so you probably will have some choices come April. Your GPA and scores are not necessarily so competitive for Ivy’s anyways, although tossing an application at one or two just to see what might happen might be a good idea. </p>
<p>I think you and your family have a much clearer notion of the realities of college admissions these days than your friends and teachers. Stick to your guns, apply to the fabulous schools you have on your list, and I hope you get some meaningful merit aid at a place you will love.</p>
<p>raiderade, I think you’ve gotten some good advice here… let me try to sum up:
[ul]
[li]Be vague. You don’t have to give them your whole list. You can say you’re still working on your list, but focusing on (insert vague description here). You can say, “My list is kind of eclectic because of my academic interests.” You can say any number of pleasantly vague things.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Don’t mention money. Your family finances are none of their business, period. You can mention specific things you like about the schools you’ve chosen… programs, faculty, study abroad, research opportunities, or even driving distance or the weather. Something “fitty” that’s hard to argue with because it’s very subjective. Or you can say you’re casting a wide net because there are a lot of great schools out there where you can stand out and get more research opportunities. Pretty much anything but money.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Smile and nod. When people ask you about your plans, they’re usually making small talk. Treat it as such, even if they become opinionated and vocal. They’re just looking for something to talk about.</p>[/li]
<p>[li]Change the subject. Give them something to talk about other than your future plans. Ask them how their kids’ college searches are going, or where they went to college and what they liked best.[/li][/ul]
Example:
“Oh gosh, you know, there are so many great places out there these days… it’s so exciting, but it’s hard to make a choice! I’ve been looking far and wide, but I’m really liking some small schools a lot of people never heard of… they all have interesting, challenging interdisciplinary programs and I seem to get along really well with the students there. Did you ever feel like you’d ‘found your people’ when you went to college?”</p>
<p>Raiderade: You are making a mature decision when it comes to finances and your college education. This is coming from a teacher as well as a rising college sophomore who had big numbers, lots of great ECs, was the valedictorian of his class and decided that he did not want debt. He selected a National Merit offer over having to take out about $15,000-$18,000 a year in loans. Sure, he wishes that some of the other schools that offered him admission had given him more merit money, but they didn’t. He made the right choice not to go into debt for his undergraduate degree. </p>
<p>As for teachers, none of us will make millions, so why we are preaching debt over what is best for our students, well …</p>
<p>When I tell them I need merit money, they say “the Ivies have GREAT financial aid, anybody can make an Ivy League education work.” Well the thing is, I DON’T think my family can,</p>
<p>1) Tell them that the ivies give great aid to THOSE who QUALIFY. They don’t give great aid to those with high incomes and/or lots of assets. The ivies expect high income earners and those with lots of assets to PAY. </p>
<p>2) Tell them that your stats are good, but not really ivy-quality. Your 2100 is likely the bottom of the mid 50s range (so almost at 25%). </p>
<p>For example…Yale…</p>
<p>Test Scores
Middle 50% of First-Year Students<br>
SAT Critical Reading: 700 - 800<br>
SAT Math: 700 - 780<br>
SAT Writing: 700 - 790</p>
<p>Maybe if these people knew this info, they’d understand. They may be operating under the guideline when they went to college in the 70s when a 1400 M+CR was good for an ivy. </p>
<p>3) If they still won’t “give up,” just say, “I’ll think about it.”</p>
<p>BTW…don’t tell people your specific list of schools. It’s none of their business. Just say that you’re looking at many schools and figuring some out.</p>
<p>For schools that will give you assured merit scholarships for your stats…look here…</p>
<p><a href=“http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html[/url]”>http://talk.collegeconfidential.com/financial-aid-scholarships/848226-important-links-automatic-guaranteed-merit-scholarships.html</a></p>
<p>Personally, I think you have a list of terrific schools.</p>
<p>I also think that you know some rude and ignorant people. </p>
<p>Continue to take the high road. Just smile and tell them that these are the schools that interest you:)</p>
<p>*make sure you and your parents really understand the financial aid situation before you make a decision based primarily on finances. Don’t just assume that real estate holdings will keep you from getting aid at more selective schools–do the research. *</p>
<p>I don’t know the extent of your family’s real estate holdings but I know that with our few rentals, our EFC is so high that even having 2 in school at the same time qualifies us for nothing. </p>
<p>So, if the family has a good income and owns a few pieces of real estate (in addition to the primary home), it’s doubtful that even HYP would give them anything.</p>
<p>The student says his family owns “a lot” of real estate…that doesn’t sound like one or two properties…that sounds like several or more. </p>
<p>Rader…ask your parents how much they are comfortable spending each year on college. With that number and some merit scholarships, many schools will work for you and your stats.</p>
<p>OP, great list of schools and great decision-making. Best of luck to you!</p>
<p>You should not feel compelled to divulge your list of schools just because someone is asking. When people asked where my daughter was applying, I responded, mostly small liberal arts colleges. When they asked about her first choice I said that she didn’t have one. We would wait to see where she got in and go from there. Yes, some people were annoyed at the lack of info, but too bad. It’s nobody’s business but yours.
Everybody has an opinion, but that doesn’t mean that you have to engage them.
And , of course, you can always just smile and nod…</p>
<p>Also, you have a great list! I wish you the best of luck.</p>
<p>Ha, ha. My daughter actually lost track of the schools she applied to after a while(not even that many), and honestly answered that she didn’t remember. I insisted that she apply to UPitt and Penn State, and she got early answers from both. After that, I really did not care if she applied anywhere else.</p>
<p>She did not have her SAT scores (took them once) on the tip of her tongue, either, and could not give an answer when asked. I guess all anyone knew was that she was in the tough classes and had gotten some nice awards beyond the local level.</p>
<p>To get back to the OP - I think your list looks fine, and I would suggest you smile and nod whenever anyone asks where you are applying. At our high school, about half of the top students go for merit-aid schools rather than the highest-ranked school they can get into, for reasons similar to your own, with some turning down Ivies for state honors colleges or merit scholarships.</p>
<p>This is definitely one of the odd byproducts of the HYP generous aid policies. A senior that we know of turned down one of the HYPs for a free ride at one of the schools on raiderade’s list because the family couldn’t afford the HYP. Which then tells anyone who knows anything about HYP aid policy more than we should know about the family’s financial situation.</p>
<p>DD had a schoolmate who answered any question about college like this: “I am not discussing my college search process until I decide where I am going.” That stops the conversation.</p>
<p>You know, I think some of this may simply be meant as a compliment, and in any case I’d accept it that way. You can just say “Thanks so much, I’m glad you think I could do that well. But I’m really excited about the places I’m looking at.” And then CHANGE THE SUBJECT. Ask “Where did you go to school?” Or any subject that puts the focus on the other person. They’re mostly just making conversation and if you show genuine interest in them, they’ll almost certainly be delighted.</p>
<p>You are right, of course, Gwen. It just doesn’t seem that way when you are 17 and trying to be mature.</p>
<p>People respond like that because you have already demonstrated that you are a very capable student and they believe you can do about anything. This is a compliment. I also believe many have fallen into the trap that an Ivy League education is so much more than anything else and last as others have said, they are uneducated about the real costs of an Ivy League education in this day and age.</p>
<p>I had a number of people who openly stated about how my daughter should go to Harvard. My first response was that neither she nor I wanted to be responsible for a $50,000 plus annual bill. Of course their response always was, “She is so smart that she will get plenty of scholarships, they will be begging for her to come to their school.” Obviously they didn’t have a clue as to Ivy merit aid (is there such a term) nor did they have a clue at what the competition at the top was like. </p>
<p>Now I just smile and tell them Boston is too cold for her.</p>