<p>Mommy:</p>
<p>I am a tough father, but in my opinion, you are being silly. You can’t force someone who is not good in math to study a STEM subject.</p>
<p>Even if he passes, it will be unlikely he will be good in that area when he enters the employment market.</p>
<p>I tried to be a tax lawyer rather than a regular lawyer, because I figured it would be lucrative. But I wasn’t good at it.</p>
<p>No point forcing a square peg into a round hole.</p>
<p>Istalan, I think that your statements are exaggerated and overly alarmist. Furthermore, your statements don’t do ANYTHING to compare engineering to the humanities.
For all we know, engineering could suck, but the humanities could suck <em>more</em>, to put it bluntly.</p>
<p>I personally do believe that engineering prospects remain better than for humanities majors, but that there is nothing wrong with majoring in the humanities as long as you are focused and proactive.</p>
<p>My brother at Cisco graduated 1 year ago. So he has only been working for a year. So I don’t know what it has to do with the year 1995.</p>
<p>You say
“And how, Terenc, do you think you get the training to “work at a company”? They don’t just hire people straight out of school, whether you have a Bachelor’s, Master’s or a PhD- they don’t want to do on-the-job training anymore”
That is simply not true. My brother, an electrical engineer was hired straight out of school, and my other brother, a computer engineer, was also hired straight out of school. Both only have bachelors. Their “training” was through internships and volunteer (free labor) summer research in labs.</p>
<p>Granted, if you, after fours years of college, have absolutely NO internships, and have NO research experience, then yes, it may be harder to get a job. But you would have to be pretty lazy as an engineer to not go out and seek internships/research for 4 entire years.</p>
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<p>This is SO true. </p>
<p>Istalan: Thank you for your post. I definitely see how what you said could be true. And sometimes, people don’t like to hear the truth when it’s ugly.</p>
<p>I’m in grade 11. Just wanted to tell you a story.
My grandparents are great- very supportive. At my mum’s and dad’s age, SUCCESSFUL women became doctors and men became engineers. My mum finished high school with first class honours and wanted to study finance. Grandfather said you will be a dentist. She hated it. Yes, she was good at it, never great because she hated it. I see even today how that has impacted her life.</p>
<p>I’m sure my grandparents love my mother and wanted her best, believe she could do the hardest possible career (as per them). Even today indirectly my mother blames her parents.</p>
<p>Makeadifference, of course parents want the best for their child. When going into a career, you must have 2 kinds of happiness. Financial Happiness and life happiness. The two can coexist, however, most of time, it is very difficult. My parents tried to coerce me into pharmacy, however, I chose economics. With economics, I know I can have both kinds of happiness. Point is, you can still pick something practical, yet love it at the same time.</p>
<p>After reading the original post, my initial reaction to this was a profuse amount of anger. Now that I’ve read all 125 comments, and the replies that the OP sent to people, I would just like to share my input.</p>
<p>I’m eighteen, and about to head off to college to be a music major. This past year I attended a highly competitive private arts boarding school in Michigan, and I learned a great deal in my time there. Personally, if I was your son I would be running in the other direction of where you are trying to push him, but I’m not your son. If he is not a math/science person, or at least does not particularly enjoy it, then I would say that he shouldn’t be pursuing that as a major just because he probably won’t enjoy it. </p>
<p>Yes, I realize that money is a big part of choosing a major now when going to college. As a music major with an interest in Women’s Studies I’ve resigned myself to a life of mediocrity (or worse) in the financial department, and I’m okay with that, because it’s what makes me happy.</p>
<p>When I was at the arts school, people were having the same problem, but reversed there. There were people that thought that they wanted to do music/art/dance, etc., and realized that what they really wanted to do was math or science, and their parents didn’t want them to do that. I’ve seen a lot of heartbreak on both sides of the equation, and think that yes, money is important. A roof over your head and food to eat are things that we need. But should we sacrifice passion for money? I don’t think so. And if you’re passionate about math or science, kudos to you. That’s great. But it sounds like your son isn’t particularly passionate about it and I wonder how that will affect him down the line.</p>
<p>I’ve been lucky to grow up in an extremely supportive household. Both of my parents were math majors, and my sister an econ major. My mother wanted to major in art, but her parents decided to not let her because of the same reason that you don’t want your son to do anything but math or science. She was okay with majoring in math, but she gave it up easily when she had children, and I know that she regrets not going to art school. She has supported me in all of my endeavors wholeheartedly because of this, and I am so incredibly thankful that she did. If my parents didn’t support me I don’t know what I would be doing. </p>
<p>You’ve already gotten a lot of similar advice to this, but please don’t push him too hard. A nudge in a direction is fine. But if he finds a passion that isn’t what one might think of as lucrative, please don’t force him away for the sake of money. Both of you will be happier in the long run, and your relationship will be better for it.</p>
<p><em>edit</em> I also just found this and think you should take a look <a href=“http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2011/09/19/5-ways-to-pick-the-right-college-major[/url]”>http://www.usnews.com/education/best-colleges/articles/2011/09/19/5-ways-to-pick-the-right-college-major</a></p>
<p>My passions are music and sociology, and when I first enrolled I took those classes with romantic, whimsical ideas about “following my passions”. Visions of my mystical professors teaching me to be a sociological mastermind and virtuoso musician. Oh boy. When I graduated I’d just make a living, you know, sociologizing with piano interludes. I envisioned “college” being like Hogwarts or something, this epic crossroads in life.</p>
<p>Then I actually started my classes… I realized fairly quickly that there is no “cultural experience” at college. That’s a marketing gimmick. You end up paying to there listening to the subjective opinions of a fairly average person. It is a place to exchange information which is useful to you, it’s not a dream scape or theme park. It’s a prettier, more competent version of high school.</p>
<p>I also envisioned myself actually looking for a job 4 years later and realized that I would feel naked and lost at interviews. I don’t want to be a broke unemployed OWS protester asking people to pay for my loan debt then having them laugh in my face when I tell them what I majored in.</p>
<p>I changed to quantitative economics and programming classes and haven’t regretted it. The rewards are almost instant. You actually learn usable, immediately applicable information, there are an abundance of internships and part time job offers, and dare I say even the classrooms and classmates feel like a promotion. Instead of re-reading things I already knew about my existing hobbies, I found completely new hobbies that I like just as much.</p>
<p>I won’t pressure my own kids into studying medicine, computers, finance, etc., but I will definitely ask to focus on what they want to do AFTER college, not DURING college. I find that for most “fun major” people, those questions have conflicting answers. Your major is effectively 2-3 years of your life (not counting general ed requirements or grad school). That’s not worth gambling on the rest.</p>
<p>I think I can see your future. Okay, this is what will happen. Your son is going to tell you he doesn’t want to major in math and you will not help him financially. He will find a way to pay for college and when he does, he will leave to pursue a degree of his choice but what he won’t tell you is that he has some hatred towards you for trying to ruin his life. Now, he will leave for college and you’re going to be sad. To make things worse, he will continue to think about how you tried to ruin his life by trying to decide his future and he will not go visit you during the break or during holidays, of course not he’s going to hate you! He will get himself a girlfriend who he will deeply love and he will completely forget about you as if you don’t exist anymore, all because you think his major of choice is worthless and you want him to major in something that he dislikes and doesn’t understand. Hopefully you don’t drive your son away from you over something so silly lady!</p>
<p>Sent from my MB508 using CC</p>
<p>I want to know the OP’s background. Did she major in what she wanted to or was she forced to major in her parent’s choice? Does she like what she is doing in her life? I posted before and still feel strongly that you have to do what you love in life. My DD is a dance major and I don’t know how she would ever not dance. She wants to dance professionally and yes it does worry me but she is so happy. She is working fulltime this summer doing childcare and is not able to take as many dance classes as she would like and it is killing her. She is tap dancing and stretching all the time every evening just because she misses it so much. My Dad always told me that you need to do what makes you happy. You work so many hours during a week that you want to be doing something you love. Being miserable is no way to spend your life. Either is living someone else’s dreams or living by someone else’s values. Someone else asked you what you consider financially to be labeled a success and you did not answer. I have been working in my field as a social worker for 25 years and still absolutely love what I do. I make very little but there are other things that make it worth it. Why do you feel your son has to be in business, etc to be successful. I truly do not understand.</p>
<p>If someone isn’t good at something, and doesn’t want to major in something that involves it like math… they shouldn’t be coerced or talked into it.
I mean, I am not that great at math. I hate math. But I love meteorology. Well guess what, it involves a ton a math. So I’m sucking it up and trying to do the best I can to pass those courses, so I can do something I enjoy. If your son finds something he wishes to do, but it does involve math… he’ll go for it anyway. But if his passion lies elsewhere, you shouldn’t discourage him even in the slightest.
And here’s the thing. … You don’t want to help him financially if he doesn’t do something in those fields because you feel as though it won’t benefit him. How about making a deal with him that you WILL help him out financially no matter what he wishes to do, but only for a set number of years like 4, that it would take to realistically complete a major. After that, whether or not he has completed schooling, he’s on his own. He may just surprise you if he truly finds what interests him and what he’s good at.</p>
<p>But it’s his life and he can major in whatever he wants. If he has no interest in science, engineering and math, he won’t enjoy his classes. Plus those majors are HARD. he will have to be very smart though!!</p>
<p>You’re ridiculous. If you say he’s not good at math, why push him into that field? He’s not going to make a successful career if he can’t even pass his math/science classes. You need to reevaluate your parenting skills.</p>
<p>I am really sorry, but you are setting your son up for possible disaster. You need to realize that your role as a parent changes over time. He has reached an age that no longer entitles you to force him into a situation where YOU are basically dictating his future. Since, his ultimatum depends on pleasing only you in this situation and not him. The only person that has the right to dictate or contemplate the direction of his future is HIM. As far as degree’s without a moderate focus on math and science being worthless, you are absolutely wrong in this department. There are people in just Hair styling that make more money than people in engineering fields. Despite the rarity of this possibility, it dire for you to understand that this possibility is largely due to the individual possessing the innate ability to excel in those situations. Essentially, this means if your son is motivated and truly enjoys what he wants to pursue, then he will likely find success in that field. It is true certain degrees have more demand than others, but this does not dictate its significance. It only means that there is need for more people specializing in those domains of thought. It does not mean they WILL be more successful than everyone else, because anyone venturing into those fields WILL face vicious competition. Meanwhile, you have already stated your son does not innately excel in those fields by default. I have to fight for your son here and say you are putting him in an extremely risky situation. I admire and give you credit for the degree of passion you have for wanting what is best for him, but only HE will know what is best for him. You need to drill this “FACT” in your mind, because at this moment you are hurting your son. You need to process how you are affecting him in this crucial time. </p>
<p>BE him right now. </p>
<p>“Ok, I’m definitely going to college, but I do not want to risk majoring in a degree program that has more than a marginal focus on math. Since, I realize I do not excel in the topic. However, I appear to excel in other topics that involve writing and the arts. Perhaps, I can find a degree program that will maximize those natural skills I have right now to secure a solid and strong basis for excelling in a career that utilizes some or all of these skills. It may even help equip me with the understanding for other topics I didn’t originally excel it before, which may be useful if I decide to pursue them later. It can’t really hurt, because I will only be adding to my expertise. However,…how the hell will I pay for these opportunities right now without possibly hurting my chances to earn the best grades possible during my academic journey. Most employers may respect an employee’s academic responsibilities, but they won’t do this forever. Since, they know it is important not to appear lenient in their position as a superior, which would affect his ability to do his job. Since, other employees may decide to jump on the band wagon and play the school card on he/she to get out of work. This dynamic will guarantee moments of extreme stress during school and I feel I need to have the freedom to do my best in school without too much obstacle outside of school. My mom is already becoming an unreliable lifeline, because she seems hell-bent on making me pursue degree programs I already know I may not be able to keep up with. Yet, the only way to secure my foothold in college without stress from the workforce is to do what SHE wants me to do. Meanwhile, I feel like it may hurt me GREATLY later. I don’t know what to do now…the clock is ticking…I don’t want to end up missing the fall semester deal with a setback. This is stressing me out…my mom is basically my only sure way right now to guarantee the freedom and monetary demands I need to excel in school. What do I do? Please her and potentially dread the work I do later? Take an extreme risk by doing something I have never done before by going my own route with all the stresses that will come with it? Even if it means potentially compromising the performance I feel could have without the guaranteed stresses of having to work, while going to school? what do I do?” </p>
<p>Now, this is the best possible rendition I can see running through your son’s mind…However…in reality…you need to envision all of these thoughts running through your son’s mind 100x faster and in higher volume to accurately understand the weight it could be having on him. Now you need to ask yourself…at this point…who’s satisfaction am I guaranteeing here? Mine? or His? Who has to deal with the rest of his life? Me…or Him?..</p>
<p>To be honest, your role as a parent is to guide your child in the right direction. By telling him that any major outside of the math/science spectrum is “worthless” is not guiding him. You can’t force him to be math wizard nor can you MAKE him enjoy science. College is about enjoying yourself. It’s about finding your passion and pursuing it. You’re forced to take classes you don’t enjoy in high school. College is the time to explore and see what works for you. Take it from me. My mother flipped out when she realized I was CONSIDERING a psychology major. It made me angry that she would try to “persuade” me to aim towards a math/science degree. If you keep pushing him, it’ll only make him resent you.</p>
<p>This is crazy. I cant believe the OP.</p>
<p>So, what your saying is that we should all just study the sciences because everything else is stupid and fake?</p>
<p>You’re claims are idiotic and nonsensical.</p>
<p>I teach AB and BC Calculus. About 30% of our srs. take these courses, another 30% take non-AP Calc. I get frustrated by the number of students in AB who are only there bc their parents “made” them. Many of these students are VERY talented writers, artists, historians, with parents who felt Math was th way to go. These same parents complain when their children get C’s and D’s in my course.</p>
<p>I always remember brothers I taught a few years ago. The first son was a finance major at Yale. (Parents thought this was def. the way to go to successful career). He was unable to find work upon graduation (even with superior grades) and lived home for almost two yrs. His younger brother went to study psychology, but later changed his major to Botany. His parents were furious! What would he do with such a degree? This caused tension during his last 2 yrs. of college. Upon graduation he was offered a phenomenal and high-paying job. Their “little” sister is now a sr. and interested in int’l law. Parents want pre-med, but she is going to follow her passion.</p>
<p>No one has a crystal ball. The best advice we can give our children is to follow their passions and work hard. I have seen too many families that no longer have close relations and depressed, suicidal students. Unconditional love means teaching our children how to be independent. </p>
<p>Do not make any decision that could jeopardize a relationship with your child. You chose your path and the life you wanted…now it is your child’s turn. Good luck to both of you!</p>
<p>Your son wont pass engineering school if he isn’t good at math and science.</p>
<p>you can let him do what he wants but you have to show him the deal</p>
<p>Slow down…If he doesn’t enjoy what he is doing he won’t excel in it anyways.</p>
<p>Your statement that anything outside of STEM majors is worthless is completely false. You can make a lot of money outside of STEM degrees.</p>
<p>Your statement is simply saying that there are no good jobs or jobs at all in fields not dealing with science and math. So the person running the business with a degree in Business Administration isn’t successful? You got to look at the picture as a whole. Business degrees aren’t STEM related usually (MIS, Accounting can be) but can be very rewarding. Psychology is considered more of a liberal arts degree but can also be rewarding if you continue your schooling.</p>
<p>If anyting, discuss the degree he is looking at and then look at the jobs he can then get. You might be surprised as how little money some STEM majors make and how much more money a non-STEM major can make and vice versa.</p>
<p>While non math/science majors may not necessarily give the most bang for your buck, many people live successful, fulfilling lives without them. All of the Presidents were history/poli sci/literature people. Many respected generals just went into the armed forces, and maybe picked up a degree along the way, which may or may not have been science/math. </p>
<p>Your generalization is frankly, quite disgusting. Your son will be happy if he is in a line of work he is happy in. Besides, if he isn’t good at math, he won’t get a degree and believe me, then his life is a lot more likely to be less than stellar than if he got a degree in say English. (Not that people who go to college can’t live successful lives, it just isn’t as likely)</p>