<p>So DS had his schedule for next year (his senior year) mostly mapped out – AP Stats, AP Lit, AP Gov, a science class (debating between AP Physics, AP Environmental and Honors Physiology), AP Psychology and journalism (has to take it as he will be Editor in Chief.)</p>
<p>Today he was thrown an interesting curveball. He found out he was recommended/suggested for the Academic Decathlon Team which means he would have to take it as a course. He wasn’t considering it, but he’s interested in the subject for next year, which is European History during the 1800s. In all likelihood, that teacher, who also teaches AP European History, will pressure the kids to take AP Euro (this would be in place of Psych) because of the material. Additionally, he usually does government independent study with those kids because there isn’t usually room in their schedule for Academic Decathlon and Government. </p>
<p>What I’m wondering is how colleges view Academic Decathlon as a class. It would look like he took two electives. Journalism is clearly his EC where he’s risen in leadership, etc. and he has another publication he edits so I think it’s clear why he’s taking that one. He’d have four solid academic classes, most likely all of them AP and two electives whereas he’s had five academics each semester of high school until now. I guess I’m wondering if Acadec is considered an academic class.</p>
<p>"What I’m wondering is how colleges view Academic Decathlon as a class. "
I think you son should ask the GC that question, as well as how students who have taken that class have fared re: college acceptances. Also, take a look at your son’s school profile and see what said in that document re: Adadec.</p>
<p>The college counselor sent a mixed message - that it’s an elective, but it can look good partly depending on how the school does, etc. but that colleges know what it is. But she wasn’t all that clear although she thought he should do it if he wants to do it which, bottom line, is sound advice. I was wondering if anyone had kids who did it and what their experience was. The problem with how kids have fared who took the class is all the other variables that factor into their acceptances – scores, GPA, etc. It’s hard to tease out any one factor. It would obviously not be an issue if it was the only elective, but it will take the place of an academic course, with Government being taken through Independent Study.</p>
<p>Between the AP science courses, if the Physics is C (not B), then it will be the one that will look more impressive on the schedule, as well as being more likely to give some subject credit upon entering the university.</p>
<p>Has he completed Calculus BC? If not, Calculus BC would be more impressive and useful than Statistics.</p>
<p>Yes, he will have completed Calc BC – Stats is the only math course left at his school. He probably will not take physics (I think it’s the C) because they simply do not have anything approaching a decent physics teacher – it’s a big weakness in the science department and widely known, and with current budget issues and lay-offs, it’s unlikely to be resolved for next year. He would have to teach himself the material and he’d feel tortured every day during class – that’s what students consistently report. So that puts him into either AP Environmental (with a teacher who is known for being disorganized) or Honors Physiology (an excellent course at our school in terms of learning). He’s done AP Bio and AP Chem. By the end of this year, he’ll have completed 8 AP courses so it’s not like he hasn’t shown he can challenge himself. He’d take at least three and probably four APs next year.</p>
<p>Perhaps community college math (starting from where Calculus BC leaves off) and physics may be a good idea if he is interested in science or engineering? AP Statistics and AP Environmental Science have a reputation of not being particularly challenging compared to AP Calculus BC, AP Physics C, AP Chemistry, and AP Biology.</p>
<p>While he’s very good at math and science, where he’s exceptional is in the humanities, and that’s where his passion is. He has no interest in engineering and might take some science in college to have a balanced education, but it won’t be what he majors in. The teacher who recommended him for Acadec taught him AP Art History, which he took in 9th grade. He thought DS would enjoy really getting in-depth into European history and that’s why he recommended him, along with the fact that he has a good memory which is helpful in Acadec. </p>
<p>I know that if he was going to take a course at CC (which has become very difficult for high school students to access as the state budget cuts go deeper and deeper), he’d want to take a subject he felt passionately about as opposed to a different math course. Plus, I think he wants to take classes with his friends. He enjoys the social aspect of high school. This decision essentially boils down to whether he should do what seems like the safest bet on paper or do something different that may play to his strengths and passions.</p>
<p>DD reminded me tonight that she took two electives her senior year and four academic subjects and she did extremely well in college admissions. I’d forgotten that completely. Of course, that was eight years ago and it seems college admissions has gotten crazier. She told me that she thinks he has the scores and grades, etc. to get into top schools but should show his passion with ECs in terms of course selection. I’m going to encourage him to meet with the teacher teaching Acadec and AP Euro and first figure out if he likes the guy well enough to spend a whole lot of time with him his senior year – including the Independent Study for Government, and if he thinks he’d enjoy it. (I guess he could probably still take the AP exam for that if he wanted to as it’s not a difficult course, but that’s irrelevant in terms of college admissions.)</p>
<p>My concern isn’t the two electives – it’s the heavier overall workload your son would face if he signs up for academic decathlon. He already has one very demanding EC – being editor in chief of the school newspaper is a great experience, but it’s also one that takes up a lot of time. And academic decathlon itself sounds time-consuming. Moreover, AP Euro is much more intense than AP Psych.</p>
<p>Life is full of trade-offs. I think that your kid has had and will have a schedule that can reasonably be seen as rigorous with or without Acadec. I think in this situation your child will be fine. They aren’t trying to be “the science kid”. I would never choose to take Physics C with a lousy teacher. I know for us trying to take an advanced math course outside the school is a pain in the neck. I really think your child will be fine. </p>
<p>Both my kids made some choices (no AP English for either of them, an Astrophysics elective instead of some other AP for older son) that may have caused them a ding or two, but they got into reach schools and landed in places that were great fits.</p>
<p>I think that Academic Decathlon, along with AP Euro, makes him stand out MORE than taking AP Psychology or AP Government.
You should be aware the AP Euro is typically much more time consuming than AP Psychology or Government. There is more reading. However, it dovetails with the Academic Decathlon team and will prepare him for studying the humanities in college much more than these other courses.
I would absolutely encourage my student to forego one or two of these other AP courses, even Statistics which is not at all challenging for a kid who was able to take Calc as an 11th grader and is NOT the equivalent of a college stats course at all, to take the combination of Academic Decathlon and AP Euro. This will do a lot more for the intellectual development of your son than these other AP courses.
If he wants to forego stats, he could just do an MIT courseware in math over the summer and put that somewhere in his application. He will learn more.
To see what I mean, take a look at Columbia University’s reading list for their “core curriculum” and compare it to the reading list for the AP Euro class. If your AP Euro class is being taught as it should be, most of these readings will be the same.</p>
<p>Have to agree that, for a student going into humanities or social studies, the AP Statistics course is more “expendable” than most of the other courses under consideration. He can always take a calculus-based statistics course in university to get the knowledge needed to handle statistics in humanities and social studies. He may want to keep AP Psychology along with Academic Decathalon just to see if he is interested in the subject.</p>
<p>Thank you for the input. He has to take a math class, as it’s a requirement of the magnet program he’s in to take four years of math at the school. The only exception is if students finish everything the school offers, in which case they still have to take math somewhere. So Stats is not negotiable, and he can still take it and do the Euro/Acadec - he’d be giving up AP Psych and have to meet his government requirement independently which would involve some work. Mathmom, I agree with you about not taking physics with a poor teacher. I’m very involved at the school and know the situation well. It bugs the heck out of me that this has gone on as long as it has and, on principle if nothing else, I’m not willing to put my kid in that class. </p>
<p>DS would love to read the kind of material on Columbia’s list. In fact, he’s considering applying to Columbia because of the Core. I’ve heard that AP Euro is not quite as difficult as AP US. He did very well in AP Art History and AP World History and is doing well in AP US so I think he’d be able to handle the level of difficulty in AP Euro. Our social studies department is very strong and this is an experienced teacher, so I imagine it’s taught well. I’m okay with his math and science being a little less challenging since he’ll have so much other stuff going on. AP Bio and AP Chem placed big demands on his time during high school. It might be nice for him to be able to devote more time to other subjects and his ECs. </p>
<p>It’s very helpful to “talk this out” here and to get other viewpoints. Thank you.</p>
<p>“I’ve heard that AP Euro is not quite as difficult as AP US. He did very well in AP Art History and AP World History and is doing well in AP US so I think he’d be able to handle the level of difficulty in AP Euro.”
That was my sons experience as well.
“DS would love to read the kind of material on Columbia’s list. In fact, he’s considering applying to Columbia because of the Core.”
He should add U Chicago to his list as they also have the “core” and the choice of classes there that meet core requirements is more flexible than at Columbia. Reed also is an excellent match or safety colleges for “core” loving students.</p>
<p>U Chicago is definitely on his list. Yale is also on his list as their Directed Studies program is a “core” program. His sister thinks it would be a good fit for him (she went there). We haven’t closely considered Reed, but we’ll check it out. I think he’d prefer to go East rather than North.</p>
<p>Mimk6, My S was forced to take AP Physics with an awful teacher or not take the subject at all, and it was NOT a pleasant experience. The teacher was eventually fired, since everyone knew he was terrible, but the kids in by S’s class–a very high-achieving group-- actually wrote a letter to the administration complaining about him. My S was another kid who did well in all of the AP sciences and Calc BC, but whose real interests lay in the humanities. He loved AP Euro. I have the impression that AP Psych is not regarded highly among the social sciences.</p>
<p>There are two stats teachers at the school. One is mediocre and one is a really terrific teacher. My son had her his freshman year for Algebra II. Statistics is her passion and she has her students do a lot of interesting projects. If he gets her, he’ll probably find it interesting. If he gets the other teacher, it will just be what it is. I’m a bit surprised at the suggestion to drop statistics (and, as I mentioned, he has a yearly math requirement) because I thought four years of math was expected of kids who wanted to apply to reach schools. Is that not the case?</p>
<p>Check whether they want “four years of math” or “completion of what is ordinarily the fourth year of high school math (i.e. precalculus) or higher”. Note that not all high schools even offer calculus and/or statistics.</p>
<p>If he can get the really good teacher, then he may want to take it because it is interesting, but be aware that he may want to take a calculus-based statistics in university anyway.</p>
<p>My 21 year old D1 read this thread and asked me to post a comment (no kidding!). She said that statistics can be VERY useful for humanities majors. She is a political science major, and has been interviewing for internships. She has landed a couple of great ones (State Dept this semester, with a US senator for the upcoming summer). But she said that several of the positions she looked at wanted statistics background, and she thinks she got some interviews because of some SPSS experience she has on her resume (from a college class). She hasn’t taken college stats (took AP in high school), but plans to possibly overload next year as a senior to squeeze it in because it keeps coming up in interviews. </p>
<p>D2 and I were talking to a bio professor at Johns Hopkins recently about D’s plans to major in biology, and she also commented that statistics is a very useful skill for bio PhD students (which D hopes to be eventually).</p>
<p>Thanks to your daughter. I had to take statistics for graduate work in psychology. It’s not that I use it in my practice, but it does kick in when I read about studies, etc. </p>
<p>Today there was a major event at DS’s school and I ran into the Acadec teacher. We had a nice talk and I think that AP Euro sounds perfect for him and that he might enjoy this teacher a lot. DS is going to visit with him and see if he likes him well enough to spend a lot of time with him and he’ll talk to students who have taken Acadec, but I think he’s quite interested. I’m no longer feeling concerned about the strength of the program. It will probably actually be challenging enough in terms of reading all the material and managing his time.</p>
<p>intparent, congratulations to your daughter on her internships, and I totally agree with her about the value of statistics. However I disagree about the value of high school AP statistics, unless there is a fantastic teacher like the OP is describing. High school AP statistics is typically “cookbook”; nothing is derived, the students do not delve into the background of what they are doing. A student who needs to have understanding of why algorithms work will get frustrated. A good college statistics course is another matter entirely - it is very valuable for just about everyone!
Add to that the problem that the OP’s son will probably not be with his academic peers in the AP statistics class - most of the students will probably be 12th graders avoiding calculus, which is fine, but they are not academic peers of a student who was able to handle BC calculus in 11th grade.</p>