<p>NO…I’m not punishing anyone. But I’m not having sex with someone who doesn’t care enough about me to talk about it, either. We actually have great intimacy and had it even then…I’m human afterall. 
I’m just saying both are equally important to a healthy relationship.</p>
<p>
When we fight in what I see as a mutual way, we can compartmentalize whatever the issue is if we haven’t resolved it and deal with each other as always. However, when he does his thing of treating me like he’s my drill sargeant, he actually has to come to me and acknowledge the inappropriateness of the conduct and then listen respectfully. I’m the kind of person who, if I behave disrespectfully or am just plain wrong, will come back and apologize immediately on my own. My husband is not like that and could pretend even the most awful fights didn’t happen, but I don’t allow that. I could go months without speaking to him and never be bothered by it. My refrain to him is “it’s not the WHAT, it’s the HOW.”</p>
<p>
My husband can almost immediately get on my good side by saying something simple like “wow that must have been awful for you” and moving on. It’s the act of acknowledging that I need from him. I just find it incredibly disrespectful to know that your spouse needs to be listened to and then choose not to do so as a pattern of behavior.</p>
<p>Here’s an example. My husband asked me for a very large favor, which was to do something related to my line of work. He didn’t understand the logistics of how to do the task and as I tried to get more information, he went ballistic – thinking that I was turning him down, which I wasn’t. Since he wouldn’t listen to me he couldn’t hear what I was trying to do and he kept winding himself up. As this went on, we were speaking two different languages, he felt rejected and I felt that by not listening to what I was asking he was putting the needs of the person for whom the favor had been requested ahead of mine. I had no problem with doing the favor, just didn’t have all the details, but he didn’t know that. We didn’t speak for four days. It wasn’t until he saw with his own eyes that I couldn’t help the friend without more information that he calmed down. But I do feel scarred by the experience and it didn’t help our marriage at all.</p>
<p>Why, usually men, don’t like to apologize even thought they know they did something wrong? Why, because, why…? Don’t you think an apology (I’m sorry) is necessary to end bad feelings? Don’t you think that every disagreement needs a closure… or not?</p>
<p>Well into our 25 years of marriage (I can be quite the slow learner), I learned that my H is MUCH more likely to apologize for using a “tone” or “raising his voice” with me if I don’t say anything at the time. </p>
<p>For many years, I would say something like," Don’t use that tone with me," or “Don’t raise your voice at me,” and then we’d end up arguing about whether he used a tone, had raised his voice, or not. Seriously! (how dumb!!!) In the “heat of the moment,” he’d always insist that he hadn’t used a tone or raised his voice. This would only cause the argument to escalate and last longer.</p>
<p>But, when I showed no reaction, just simply, calmly responded in a nice voice to any unpleasant voice…then…about a half hour or so, he’d call or come up to me and apologize for his behavior (the same behavior that he would have vehemently denied doing if I had confronted him “in the moment.”)</p>
<p>Men! LOL :)</p>
<p>When there’s been a major blowup then I do think apologies (on both sides) are necessary, but the real closure (for us, anyway) comes in being able to discuss the issue calmly and with tones of voice that say we care about the other’s point of view. Tone of voice, to me, is HUGE. If I feel I’m being yelled at, or spoken to harshly, I get very defensive. Say the same thing in a calm tone and I’ll be very reasonable. </p>
<p>For more mundane disagreements, we usually use humor as closure. One of us will say something funny or silly to lighten the mood, then we smile and can get over it very quickly. This all comes a lot easier after nearly 25 years of marriage. It took us a while to learn how to argue well. :)</p>
<p>I think there is a big difference between ‘hearing’ and ‘agreeing’. I think when people say they want to be heard they want to know the other person understand swhere they are coming from, the perspective they hold (but I think the other person often thinks it means agreement). You can understand someone’s perspective without necessarily agreeing with it. But sorting out those perspectives is important. Two adults have two different perspectives-- Its not that one has the ‘facts’ and the other is out to lunch. </p>
<p>Men, on average, I think are more likely to be immediate outcome based. Find a solution to the current problem or ‘trigger’, and go for it. And if something isn’t posing a problem on the surface or the current ‘outcome’ isn’t an issue, nothing needs to be ‘fixed’. Women, on average, are more inclined to care about the ‘meaning’ of what’s going on or transpired, and they need to work through that. I think they are socialized to be more sensitive to/manage the health of the relationship so fixing the underlying issue with the thought of moving ahead to a healthier relationship, rather than just fixing immediate superficial outcomes, is paramount to them. [Sorry for the gross gender generalizations: let me say there are lots of exceptions, I’m just talking about mean differences.]</p>
<p>Some stereotypical examples: Husband forgets one’s birthday, wife is upset. Husband says “but you can just buy yourself a gift” or gets a gift after the fact…and doesn’t understand why she’s still upset. Getting the gift after the fact isn’t the point, and doesn’t fix anything but the superficial immediate outcome. But it is not about the gift (the immediate outcome), but the underlying MEANING…what does it MEAN that you would forget my birthday and what does this say about our relationship going forward? </p>
<p>As for feelings and facts…these aren’t mutual exclusive at all and it’s not either/or. One FEELS a certain way for a real reason. Uncovering the reason by working through the feelings (and more importantly WHY one has those feelings to begin with) is very worthwhile (especially for the health of the overall relationship, not just the immediate problem presenting itself). Ones feelings emanate from what they believe transpired-- which may be factual or not (be careful how this is defined…as there are often multiple and valid perceptions of the exact same ‘facts’, it is not the case that YOUR version is factual and the other person’s is imaginary).</p>
<p>*
Here’s an example. My husband asked me for a very large favor, which was to do something related to my line of work. He didn’t understand the logistics of how to do the task and as I tried to get more information, he went ballistic – thinking that I was turning him down, which I wasn’t. Since he wouldn’t listen to me he couldn’t hear what I was trying to do and he kept winding himself up. As this went on, we were speaking two different languages, he felt rejected and I felt that by not listening to what I was asking he was putting the needs of the person for whom the favor had been requested ahead of mine. I had no problem with doing the favor, just didn’t have all the details, but he didn’t know that. We didn’t speak for four days.*</p>
<p>Don’t you just hate it when an argument “blows up” when a simple clarification would have prevented it!? We had to learn to use the phrase, “Time out,” to stop such things so that the clarification could happen a short time later.</p>
<p>In our case…the development of the phrase “time out” came after a similar situation. My H had “jumped to conclusions” and before I could get the clarification out, he was too angry to listen. Days later, when the clarification came out, I told him that this was just another example of how a fight gets bigger than needed and that because he does this, we need to have a “time out” that either can declare. The only rule is that a person can not “have their say,” and then say “time out,” so that the other person can’t respond.</p>
<p>My H & I have not had problems with communications, it had been my S & I. For some reason, H has long ago (probably from prior GFs, mom & sister) learned how to work out differences with women.</p>
<p>S & I were always butting heads until I finally started asking him, “Wait, before we go further, are you saying this to vent or are we trying to work out a solution?” It would make both of us stop and figure out where we wanted the converstaion to go and our relationship was a LOT better after that. It took me so many years to figure this out but is has made a huge difference.</p>
<p>H & I sometimes have dustups, but they generally are when one or both of us are tired and just a bit “short” with the other. We have different skill sets and sometimes, it is exasperating for H to not know what I do and don’t understand about computers (his speciality for 40+ years) and so he either starts off too high or too low with his explanations & we both get frustrated.</p>
<p>I also know more about law and business (in general) than he, so we have to tread carefully there too.</p>
<p>All in all, it’s important for both parties to know when the feelings are taking over instead of the substance of what people are trying to communicate & figure out how to literally or figuratively remove themselves so they can cool off/calm down. Of course, this always sounds so much easier than it is in the heat of a disagreement. I would take timeout from my kids sometimes, just because I knew I wasn’t communicating effectively and it always helped.</p>
<p>I hate fighting but we do bicker sometimes. Once in awhile it’ll be on the weekend, and H will start nick picking or “I told you so” or something and I just look at him and start laughing with, “its a beautiful Saturday and I’m not going to ruin it by fighting with you right now!” and he cracks up. It diffuses the tension.</p>
<p>I’m the wife. My husband’s the husband. =)</p>
<p>Yes, yes, we’re newlyweds, in our late twenties/early thirties and still blissful in our youthful love, but in our defense, we’ve been together for ten years this September, so we <em>do</em> have <em>some</em> experience at having to work to get along with one another.</p>
<p>He’s very good about humoring me when I want to talk about my feelings. I’m very good about knowing that he’s humoring me. One thing I’ve noticed is that we really try never to put the other one down in front of other people (he’s far better at this than I am… I’m not as good about restraining myself from poking a little fun at him in public). </p>
<p>We ALWAYS say please and thank you. It’s a habit we’ve developed together. We notice when the other one has taken out the trash, or has replaced the paper towels, or has cooked dinner, or made the bed, and we point it out and say thank you.</p>
<p>I think the undercurrent of courtesy helps set the frame for our relationship. We bicker, but it’s always good-natured and we’re always dissolving in laughter over it.</p>
<p>When we got married, someone gave us advice: never go to bed angry. We’d always been a little baffled by that, because we can’t stay mad at each other for more than an hour or two. We’ve learned to argue, which in our world means just to talk things out. I’ve learned to shut my mouth and let him respond, and he’s learned to talk about what he thinks when I say what I say. We’ve both learned to speak up when something’s bothering us, and to not let it fester. He’s learned to trust me, and I’ve learned to trust him, and we’ve learned to respect and listen to each other’s opinions.</p>
<p>We still can’t really believe how lucky we are. At least, I know I’m really lucky.</p>
<p>My parents are friends with this couple. The husband never said no to the wife, and he was always attentive. All my mother’s friends were very envious of the wife. One day they had 4-5 tables of majong (a Chinese gambling game) going at my parents’ house. This couple was sitting very far from each other. The wife was barking out some orders at the husband. Where the husband was playing the game, no one could hear what the wife was saying. But the husband, from time to time, would say, “Sure, sweetie, I’ll take care of it” “No problem, honey.” As these were older people, one man said to this guy, “Hey, you have great hearing. I can’t hear a word your wife is saying.” This guy said, “I can’t hear what she is saying either. I know she is telling me to do something, so I just say yes and it makes her happy.”</p>
<p>Greenery: “Why, usually men, don’t like to apologize even thought they know they did something wrong? Why, because, why…? Don’t you think an apology (I’m sorry) is necessary to end bad feelings? Don’t you think that every disagreement needs a closure… or not?”</p>
<p>My H NEVER, ever apologizes. And while he can simmer for some time, other times he’s mightily quick with his LOUD voice. I think it’s his Italian heritage (which is obviously not mine). He also gets pretty annoyed with my ways of doing things, but maybe he’s just annoyed with my ADD. It’s just that I don’t complain to him the way he complains to me. (True! Even my kids tell me that.) When is it my turn?</p>
<p>“I feel that you are not taking me seriously” or “I feel that you don’t do the dishes enough.” </p>
<p>These are not “feeling statements”. They are “thinking statements”. </p>
<p>Feeling statements state a feeling state: “I feel treasured when you ______; I feel belittled when you use that tone”.</p>
<p>Yea, sometimes hubby gets upset when I use a “tone.” I am generally very surprised when he brings it up, since it was never intended and generally happens when I’m tired, exasperated but generally not at him. He’s a pretty good guy and rarely rattled.</p>
<p>* notice some husbands are not into “feelings”…just facts.*</p>
<p>If only. </p>
<p>My H, accuses me of being mad if I am squinting at something. With -11.00 vision, I squint quite a bit and had the lines to prove it!</p>
<p>So I started getting Botox ;)</p>